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But has the student to GOOD teacher ratio gone down?

by k0mplex 16y ago

trafficlight 16y ago
My wife is an elementary teacher with a Master's degree who can't get a job here in Montana. She applied for more than 40 positions for the upcoming school year and has only gotten 4 interviews. The rest of them don't want to spend the extra two thousand dollars a year in salary that accompanies a Master's degree. Several school districts have flat out told her that they throw her applications away because the district is required to hire only teachers without experience. It's a sad state of affairs.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  Having a Masters degree does not improve student performance but does cost taxpayers more money. It sounds like a happy state of affairs that the taxpayers are not being forced to pay $2000/year for nothing. http://education-portal.com/articles/Teacher_Training_Experience_May_Be_More_Valuable_Than_An_Advanced_Degree.html http://education-portal.com/articles/Teacher_Training_Experi...
  - hugh3 16y ago
    It would be an even happier state of affairs if the Master's-qualified teacher were free to take whatever salary could be negotiated between her and the school, without union interference.
  - trafficlight 16y ago
    No of course a Masters doesn't automatically equate to a higher quality, but she can't get a job at all because of it. Because of the Teacher's Union, she can't even waive that extra $2000. She would be grateful to take the base wage if it meant employment.
  - ktsmith 16y ago
    Having a masters degree "may" not improve student performance. Unless of course you are teaching math or science at the secondary level and have a degree in those subjects in which case it "does" improve student performance. Without having a close look at the data they used (which is now twenty years old) it's hard to say if they took into account teachers with masters degrees and classroom experience. As teachers are required to continue their education just to remain licensed it makes a lot of sense for teachers to get a masters degree even if it didn't improve their ability to teach. There is very little value in spending money on specialized instructional courses or seminars that count towards relicensing credits when those methodologies won't be used in the classroom in another three to five years or will be rebranded and resold by some other company that is the flavor of the day. A masters degree can also be a path to administration, counselor etc.
- dantheman 16y ago
  The problem is that the unions pushed through requirements that people with advanced degrees should be payed more, where she would most likely forgo the extra 2k a year to teach she is now priced out of the market. In industry this type of stuff doesn't happen, sure you may like to earn more for having your degree but if it isn't valued by the employer then it has no bearing on your compensation.
  - Retric 16y ago
    Try looking for a job as an “overqualified” applicant in private industry. If they are not paid more or treated better then it’s assumed they will quickly move on.
    - CWuestefeld 16y ago
      I can't speak for every company, but we've never passed over an applicant having a higher degree. [EDIT: we've never passed over such an applicant for that reason] And having this be a judgment call by the employer still provides a heck of a lot more chance for the applicant than the union-dictated state of affairs, in which the combination of budget and laws forbid the hiring of this teacher.

But has the student to GOOD teacher ratio gone down?

by k0mplex 16y ago

But has the student to GOOD teacher ratio gone down?

My wife is an elementary teacher with a Master's degree who can't get a job here in Montana. She applied for more than 40 positions for the upcoming school year and has only gotten 4 interviews. The rest of them don't want to spend the extra two thousand dollars a year in salary that accompanies a Master's degree. Several school districts have flat out told her that they throw her applications away because the district is required to hire only teachers without experience. It's a sad state of affairs.

yummyfajitas 16y ago
Having a Masters degree does not improve student performance but does cost taxpayers more money. It sounds like a happy state of affairs that the taxpayers are not being forced to pay $2000/year for nothing. http://education-portal.com/articles/Teacher_Training_Experience_May_Be_More_Valuable_Than_An_Advanced_Degree.html http://education-portal.com/articles/Teacher_Training_Experi...
- hugh3 16y ago
  It would be an even happier state of affairs if the Master's-qualified teacher were free to take whatever salary could be negotiated between her and the school, without union interference.
- trafficlight 16y ago
  No of course a Masters doesn't automatically equate to a higher quality, but she can't get a job at all because of it. Because of the Teacher's Union, she can't even waive that extra $2000. She would be grateful to take the base wage if it meant employment.
- ktsmith 16y ago
  Having a masters degree "may" not improve student performance. Unless of course you are teaching math or science at the secondary level and have a degree in those subjects in which case it "does" improve student performance. Without having a close look at the data they used (which is now twenty years old) it's hard to say if they took into account teachers with masters degrees and classroom experience. As teachers are required to continue their education just to remain licensed it makes a lot of sense for teachers to get a masters degree even if it didn't improve their ability to teach. There is very little value in spending money on specialized instructional courses or seminars that count towards relicensing credits when those methodologies won't be used in the classroom in another three to five years or will be rebranded and resold by some other company that is the flavor of the day. A masters degree can also be a path to administration, counselor etc.
dantheman 16y ago
The problem is that the unions pushed through requirements that people with advanced degrees should be payed more, where she would most likely forgo the extra 2k a year to teach she is now priced out of the market. In industry this type of stuff doesn't happen, sure you may like to earn more for having your degree but if it isn't valued by the employer then it has no bearing on your compensation.
- Retric 16y ago
  Try looking for a job as an “overqualified” applicant in private industry. If they are not paid more or treated better then it’s assumed they will quickly move on.
  - CWuestefeld 16y ago
    I can't speak for every company, but we've never passed over an applicant having a higher degree. [EDIT: we've never passed over such an applicant for that reason] And having this be a judgment call by the employer still provides a heck of a lot more chance for the applicant than the union-dictated state of affairs, in which the combination of budget and laws forbid the hiring of this teacher.