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Based on anything I stated how do you conclude I "think all criminals are violent scum"? I'm an attorney, have defended people accused of crimes, and I too hav

Based on anything I stated how do you conclude I "think all criminals are violent scum"? I'm an attorney, have defended people accused of crimes, and I too have a criminal record, so please check your bias. What I wrote is about a hypocritical practice that hiring managers engage in (rejection out right) when the reality is other employees they have hired and even themselves have engaged in the same acts, they just don't have a record as a result. Further, I suggest given the opportunity it might be better to say "hey, I have a criminal record for possession of marijuana, if you haven't personally experimented, you probably know someone who has or even voted for a President who has, Unfortunately I have a record as a result and I feel I have to acknowledge it as a courtesy to you" that might be more powerful than the original suggestion of "it shouldn't have happened...". But maybe I'm way off and such a suggestion some how projects an opinion I believe all criminals as scum, but I assure you I don't have such a low view of myself.

Mz 9y ago
I don't have any bias to check. I am basing my conclusions on your remarks. Perhaps those conclusions are inaccurate. But it is your framing that seems to come from an assumption of guilt. This is neither accurate, nor effective marketing. For some years, I was close to someone who spent three years in prison for their political activism and was questioned under torture. For this reason, I am keenly aware that whenever a corrupt government is overthrown, the first thing that happens is all the prisoners are set free on the assumption that they are political prisoners. An awful lot of Americans are in jail for being "the wrong kind of people." I have spent the last 5.5 years on the receiving end of ridiculous, toxic classism and sexism. It has made me keenly aware of the systemic forces that make it impossible to become the "right kind of person" for an awful lot of people whose only real crime was being born at all. A) When the system is this fucked up, yes, society needs to find an effective, constructive means to give its victims a pass, a do-over, and let time sort out which ones will make good use of a second chance and which won't. B) Affirming their fundamental innocence is a better marketing strategy than suggesting to employers "your firm is already full of wolves in sheep's clothing, so might as well hire more wolves." I don't have the link handy, but I read a good piece by a white guy who talked about his epiphany about racism and part of what he said was that there were countless times in his youth that he actually broke the law, was caught by the police and basically told "Go home before you hurt yourself, son." Had he been another color, he would have gone to jail for what are merely youthful indiscretions for privileged white males. It does not help to tell people he is just as guilty as the colored people who got arrested. It is much more effective to say they are just as innocent as him, but got shafted. It makes them more trustworthy in the eyes of most people and it is a more dignified treatment of people whose dignity is one of the victims of their crime of being born one of the wrong people. I hope that makes some sense. I am not at my best at the moment.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- will_brown 9y ago
  I'm sorry you have dealt with/are dealing with anything like that. >B) Affirming their fundamental innocence is a better marketing strategy than suggesting to employers "your firm is already full of wolves in sheep's clothing, so might as well hire more wolves." Again I'll admit I framed it poorly, but Please reread: >this is my background, this is what I learned and this is my vision of my own future. I did give an example where guilt was admitted, But the original advice really is more along the lines of: I was charged with "x", I learned this thru the experience and as a result I want to do y with my future and that's why I am here. None of that is intended to address guilt, innocence or facts just the objective fact there is a record. For example, I don't even volunteer a positive outcome such as the state dropping the charges unless expressly asked, and I'll admit maybe that is a marketing mistake on my part.
  - Mz 9y ago
    I don't know why you keep coming back to this. You are talking about how an individual represents themselves to a potential employer. I am talking about branding position for a job board. These are entirely different things and I already addressed that: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14914201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14914201 Edit: I am not trying to be gruff. I just have a fever. Apologies for any failure to be smooth here.

Mz 9y ago

I don't have any bias to check. I am basing my conclusions on your remarks. Perhaps those conclusions are inaccurate. But it is your framing that seems to come from an assumption of guilt. This is neither accurate, nor effective marketing. For some years, I was close to someone who spent three years in prison for their political activism and was questioned under torture. For this reason, I am keenly aware that whenever a corrupt government is overthrown, the first thing that happens is all the prisoners are set free on the assumption that they are political prisoners. An awful lot of Americans are in jail for being "the wrong kind of people." I have spent the last 5.5 years on the receiving end of ridiculous, toxic classism and sexism. It has made me keenly aware of the systemic forces that make it impossible to become the "right kind of person" for an awful lot of people whose only real crime was being born at all. A) When the system is this fucked up, yes, society needs to find an effective, constructive means to give its victims a pass, a do-over, and let time sort out which ones will make good use of a second chance and which won't. B) Affirming their fundamental innocence is a better marketing strategy than suggesting to employers "your firm is already full of wolves in sheep's clothing, so might as well hire more wolves." I don't have the link handy, but I read a good piece by a white guy who talked about his epiphany about racism and part of what he said was that there were countless times in his youth that he actually broke the law, was caught by the police and basically told "Go home before you hurt yourself, son." Had he been another color, he would have gone to jail for what are merely youthful indiscretions for privileged white males. It does not help to tell people he is just as guilty as the colored people who got arrested. It is much more effective to say they are just as innocent as him, but got shafted. It makes them more trustworthy in the eyes of most people and it is a more dignified treatment of people whose dignity is one of the victims of their crime of being born one of the wrong people. I hope that makes some sense. I am not at my best at the moment.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
will_brown 9y ago
I'm sorry you have dealt with/are dealing with anything like that. >B) Affirming their fundamental innocence is a better marketing strategy than suggesting to employers "your firm is already full of wolves in sheep's clothing, so might as well hire more wolves." Again I'll admit I framed it poorly, but Please reread: >this is my background, this is what I learned and this is my vision of my own future. I did give an example where guilt was admitted, But the original advice really is more along the lines of: I was charged with "x", I learned this thru the experience and as a result I want to do y with my future and that's why I am here. None of that is intended to address guilt, innocence or facts just the objective fact there is a record. For example, I don't even volunteer a positive outcome such as the state dropping the charges unless expressly asked, and I'll admit maybe that is a marketing mistake on my part.
- Mz 9y ago
  I don't know why you keep coming back to this. You are talking about how an individual represents themselves to a potential employer. I am talking about branding position for a job board. These are entirely different things and I already addressed that: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14914201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14914201 Edit: I am not trying to be gruff. I just have a fever. Apologies for any failure to be smooth here.