4 ms·

I think the whole issue of "unequal pay" seems very made-up and political and does not make any sense at all, at least in any way anyone can do anything about i

I think the whole issue of "unequal pay" seems very made-up and political and does not make any sense at all, at least in any way anyone can do anything about it... bear with me while I try to explain it. Lets say there are differences in how much certain demographics of people get paid over another. Lets take short vs tall people or black vs white or with blood groups positive vs negative. Lets say that there is a difference in average pay for people with positive blood groups vs negative blood groups. So what? It could be completely arbitrary or there could be an underlying cause that makes employers pay one type of blood group over another. Either way, why should an employer pay any more than what they think the position is worth as long as someone is willing to voluntarily work for that amount of money? What's in it for any employer to pay more than the employee negotiated to work for?

macintux 9y ago
There are significant societal costs when a group is undervalued. Young members of that group choose not to participate. Members of other groups decide to extend the discrimination in other ways.
- anotherbrownguy 9y ago
  OK, but why should a business care?
  - macintux 9y ago
    Businesses are not automata, independent of their environment. People own, run, and work for businesses; people care, or should, what the world will look like for the next generation. This notion that businesses exist solely for a short-term profit for their shareholders is patently destructive.
    - anotherbrownguy 9y ago
      The "notion" may be "destructive" in your opinion, but it doesn't make it less true.
monktastic1 9y ago
Do you think it's possible and worthwhile to change attitudes? If we once believed (and no doubt some still do) that black people are worth less than white people, and so black people were effectively forced to accept less (though nobody was holding a gun to their heads), was that an acceptable state of affairs? What was in it for any of the (non-black) people to change anything about it? Given the stories we regularly hear from female employees in the tech industry (of being harassed and/or left out of the "inner circle"), it seems unreasonable to conclude that the effects we see might be "completely arbitrary" as opposed to caused by those attitudes (in addition to other causes that have been pointed out, such as difference in priorities, of course).
- anotherbrownguy 9y ago
  >Do you think it's possible and worthwhile to change attitudes? Depends. >If we once believed (and no doubt some still do) that black people are worth less than white people, and so black people were effectively forced to accept less (though nobody was holding a gun to their heads), was that an acceptable state of affairs? Yes. Westerners didn't arbitrarily decide that blacks were worth less to them, it was because they were. Blacks could not contribute anything to the westerners other than slave labour... and they were too ignorant of the western power structure to organize themselves to fight for equal worth from the states they were in. When they figured it out however, they did get the same worth from the states they were in. >What was in it for any of the (non-black) people to change anything about it? Not sure about all non-blacks but the Republican Party of the US which was founded by anti-slavery activists who believed in independence and freedom for all people. They already had examples of free blacks who were just as capable of learning and contributing to the society and letting some people own some of them and treat them as animals wasn't acceptable to them and a lot of others. So, they used it for political leverage and were very successful. >Given the stories we regularly hear from female employees in the tech industry (of being harassed and/or left out of the "inner circle") Nobody is stopping women from having their own niche occupation where they make their own inner circles... oh wait there are those occupations, they are called nursing and teaching. Men and women in general have different life goals and different preferences in their careers. Also, "harassment" happens to men too (specially when everything is harassment)... men just deal with it differently i.e. by not complaining about it to others and doing something about it themselves.

macintux 9y ago

There are significant societal costs when a group is undervalued. Young members of that group choose not to participate. Members of other groups decide to extend the discrimination in other ways.

anotherbrownguy 9y ago
OK, but why should a business care?
- macintux 9y ago
  Businesses are not automata, independent of their environment. People own, run, and work for businesses; people care, or should, what the world will look like for the next generation. This notion that businesses exist solely for a short-term profit for their shareholders is patently destructive.
  - anotherbrownguy 9y ago
    The "notion" may be "destructive" in your opinion, but it doesn't make it less true.

monktastic1 9y ago

Do you think it's possible and worthwhile to change attitudes? If we once believed (and no doubt some still do) that black people are worth less than white people, and so black people were effectively forced to accept less (though nobody was holding a gun to their heads), was that an acceptable state of affairs? What was in it for any of the (non-black) people to change anything about it? Given the stories we regularly hear from female employees in the tech industry (of being harassed and/or left out of the "inner circle"), it seems unreasonable to conclude that the effects we see might be "completely arbitrary" as opposed to caused by those attitudes (in addition to other causes that have been pointed out, such as difference in priorities, of course).

anotherbrownguy 9y ago
>Do you think it's possible and worthwhile to change attitudes? Depends. >If we once believed (and no doubt some still do) that black people are worth less than white people, and so black people were effectively forced to accept less (though nobody was holding a gun to their heads), was that an acceptable state of affairs? Yes. Westerners didn't arbitrarily decide that blacks were worth less to them, it was because they were. Blacks could not contribute anything to the westerners other than slave labour... and they were too ignorant of the western power structure to organize themselves to fight for equal worth from the states they were in. When they figured it out however, they did get the same worth from the states they were in. >What was in it for any of the (non-black) people to change anything about it? Not sure about all non-blacks but the Republican Party of the US which was founded by anti-slavery activists who believed in independence and freedom for all people. They already had examples of free blacks who were just as capable of learning and contributing to the society and letting some people own some of them and treat them as animals wasn't acceptable to them and a lot of others. So, they used it for political leverage and were very successful. >Given the stories we regularly hear from female employees in the tech industry (of being harassed and/or left out of the "inner circle") Nobody is stopping women from having their own niche occupation where they make their own inner circles... oh wait there are those occupations, they are called nursing and teaching. Men and women in general have different life goals and different preferences in their careers. Also, "harassment" happens to men too (specially when everything is harassment)... men just deal with it differently i.e. by not complaining about it to others and doing something about it themselves.