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I agree. I said basically that? The culture problem in tech is not the cause, it’s just the end symptom of many things - including what you’re taking about.

greenshackle2 9y ago
You said that: > The level of drop outs of women in tech due to this is very high. But if that were true I'd expect women would be underrepresented in tech compared to AP Comp Sci. As it is they are slightly over-represented. If you have clearer evidence on that point I'd like to see it. I've heard convincing anecdotes of women dropping out because of sexism but I find it hard to reconcile with the data.
- abritinthebay 9y ago
  You're comparing different things - one is current levels of CompSci (small, limited, sample size - hell I wouldn't show up in CompSci numbers) which is also basically at an all time high. The other is a total size metric that won't show churn. I get what you're trying to show but the comparison doesn't follow.
bentruyman 9y ago
> it’s just the end symptom of many things I'm not disagreeing, but "systems" is the reason I've often heard in this discussion without ANY real hard data expanding on what these systems precisely are and how they aren't a reflection merely of, let's say, biology. All I see generally when referring to "systems" are anecdotes and high-level conclusions based purely on personal experiences. None of which helps further the discussion. If you can find these systems, prove them, I'll be right there with ya tearing them down.
- abritinthebay 9y ago
  Well there are entire fields of science dedicated to this. It’s like asking someone to “prove philosophy”. It’s not quite the right question.
  - bentruyman 9y ago
    Then it should be easy to enumerate the issues, and offer some ideas for solutions. As someone who follows this issue quite closely, I've seen neither. This entire thread illustrates the confusion – and that there is absolutely no consensus that even an issue exists in the first place.

greenshackle2 9y ago

You said that: > The level of drop outs of women in tech due to this is very high. But if that were true I'd expect women would be underrepresented in tech compared to AP Comp Sci. As it is they are slightly over-represented. If you have clearer evidence on that point I'd like to see it. I've heard convincing anecdotes of women dropping out because of sexism but I find it hard to reconcile with the data.

abritinthebay 9y ago
You're comparing different things - one is current levels of CompSci (small, limited, sample size - hell I wouldn't show up in CompSci numbers) which is also basically at an all time high. The other is a total size metric that won't show churn. I get what you're trying to show but the comparison doesn't follow.

bentruyman 9y ago

> it’s just the end symptom of many things I'm not disagreeing, but "systems" is the reason I've often heard in this discussion without ANY real hard data expanding on what these systems precisely are and how they aren't a reflection merely of, let's say, biology. All I see generally when referring to "systems" are anecdotes and high-level conclusions based purely on personal experiences. None of which helps further the discussion. If you can find these systems, prove them, I'll be right there with ya tearing them down.

abritinthebay 9y ago
Well there are entire fields of science dedicated to this. It’s like asking someone to “prove philosophy”. It’s not quite the right question.
- bentruyman 9y ago
  Then it should be easy to enumerate the issues, and offer some ideas for solutions. As someone who follows this issue quite closely, I've seen neither. This entire thread illustrates the confusion – and that there is absolutely no consensus that even an issue exists in the first place.