5 ms·

>Attitudes are changing quickly Are they now? Tell me, which political party is planning on decriminalizing drug offenses?

jstanley 9y ago
Just because political parties haven't kept up doesn't mean attitudes aren't changing quickly. In fact, if attitudes are changing fast enough, you'd expect political parties to be notably behind the curve.
- Danihan 9y ago
  Only about 10% of people support legalizing harder drugs. They will remain illegal, and people will continue getting felonies. So... I don't believe that "these attitudes are changing quickly." http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/druglegalization2.png http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/druglegalization2.png
  - raarts 9y ago
    Man, just admit your comment was snarky and be done with it!
    - Danihan 9y ago
      It's not snarky, it's just reality. These felonies in question are either from violent crimes, which will always be illegal and a stain on someone's record, or from possessing hard drugs / selling drugs / or committing crimes associated with the black market due to the war on drugs. Obviously, from what I posted, the harder drugs will likely always be illegal and most people continue to support that. We aren't "making progress" when 90% of people surveyed want to physically put me in a cage for years for having a few hits of LSD in my pocket, or for selling steroids to gym buddies.
      - RonanTheGrey 9y ago
        And it's not "slap on the wrist years" like 1 year. These things carry penalties of 10, 15, 20 years. That's an entire life, for what? America is a country that enjoys persecuting people. Even better if they "deserve" it. A country once built on second, third, fourth chances, has now dedicated itself to the proposition that the tiniest mistake should destroy your entire life. I am pleased to see that sometimes, we take a micro-step back the other direction. But I have seen no indication that the swing will ever go the other way. How could it? What lawmaker would ever advocate being softer on crime? What company would encourage what is "illegal"? And when the entire conversation is controlled by those who will never encourage those points of view because it would be unpopular, your average American will never have the conversation on any other terms either.
        Danihan 9y ago
        You can't even discuss it on HN without being accused of being snarky / defeatist (really?) / or having the sub-thread deleted. (see Dang's comment)
RickS 9y ago
In addition to being needlessly snarky, you're effectively saying "progress doesn't count unless it goes all the way". That's bullshit. Attitudes regarding whether people should be jailed for substance abuse, and whether people are permanently morally tarnished for same, are loosening over time in the same way that gay rights, etc, have. Just because it isn't the dem's top campaign promise doesn't mean it isn't making progress.
- Danihan 9y ago
  I didn't say it had to be all or nothing. I'm asking to see ANY political progress towards decriminalizing drugs, particularly drugs besides marijuana, which isn't the drug that is generally causing these felony records.
__jal 9y ago
Unnecessarily bitchy defeatism aside, the answer to your question is the Democratic Party[1]. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/08/01/cory-booker-puts-marijuana-legalization-at-the-center-of-his-new-racial-justice-bil/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/08/01/cory-...
- Danihan 9y ago
  It's neither, just correcting misconceptions. It's tiring to constantly hear people saying we're "making progress" while we continue to perpetuate the same policy problems that have obviously caused issues for decades and decades. Correct me if I'm wrong but the bill you mentioned only seems to deal with marijuana, which I don't think is how most people get drug felonies.
  - Mtinie 9y ago
    It may not be most, but according to statistics[1] from 2015, marijuana accounted for 24% of the drug case sentences. Reducing or eliminating these would be a major step in the right direction and would in my book count as "making progress". 1 - https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-publications/research-publications/2016/FY15_Overview_Federal_Criminal_Cases.pdf https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-pu... (top of page 9)
    - Danihan 9y ago
      Another tepid form of progress is fewer "mandatory minimum" sentences, on page 8. That's nice to see at least, thank you for the PDF.
  - jsmthrowaway 9y ago
    > Correct me if I'm wrong but the bill you mentioned only seems to deal with marijuana, which I don't think is how most people get drug felonies. You'd be surprised. Lots of weed? Cash? Baggies? Scale? Intent. Felony. Civil forfeiture (State of California v. A bag of $25,000 in cash). Go directly to Chino. Do not pass go. It's usually the intent to distribute that ends people, and that does happen a lot with marijuana. Simple possession is easier to wiggle out of these days, depending on where you are and if it isn't much. Over a half ounce of marijuana in Virginia used to be a few years in prison (not sure if it still is). I'm carrying over a half ounce on my person right now and it'd be fine. Jurisdiction sucks.
cestith 9y ago
The Libertarian Party is. The Democratic Party has very limited plans in that direction, but they are working toward cannabis reform.
mcappleton 9y ago
It's not just drug offenses. Now you can go to jail if you speed over 20mph over the speed limit even if your being safe about it
mcappleton 9y ago
It's not just drug offenses. Now you can go to jail if you speed over 20mph over the speed limit even if your being safe about it
dang 9y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14912009 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14912009 and marked it off-topic.
- Danihan 9y ago
  I don't think discussing a leading cause of felonies is off-topic in a thread about employing felons.
  - dang 9y ago
    It really is, because the more generic the tangent, the more force it has to carry off the entire thread. IMO it's an important point that needs to be better understood. I wrote about it recently at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14917723 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14917723 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14912821 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14912821 if anyone's interested.

jstanley 9y ago

Just because political parties haven't kept up doesn't mean attitudes aren't changing quickly. In fact, if attitudes are changing fast enough, you'd expect political parties to be notably behind the curve.

Danihan 9y ago
Only about 10% of people support legalizing harder drugs. They will remain illegal, and people will continue getting felonies. So... I don't believe that "these attitudes are changing quickly." http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/druglegalization2.png http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/druglegalization2.png
- raarts 9y ago
  Man, just admit your comment was snarky and be done with it!
  - Danihan 9y ago
    It's not snarky, it's just reality. These felonies in question are either from violent crimes, which will always be illegal and a stain on someone's record, or from possessing hard drugs / selling drugs / or committing crimes associated with the black market due to the war on drugs. Obviously, from what I posted, the harder drugs will likely always be illegal and most people continue to support that. We aren't "making progress" when 90% of people surveyed want to physically put me in a cage for years for having a few hits of LSD in my pocket, or for selling steroids to gym buddies.
    - RonanTheGrey 9y ago
      And it's not "slap on the wrist years" like 1 year. These things carry penalties of 10, 15, 20 years. That's an entire life, for what? America is a country that enjoys persecuting people. Even better if they "deserve" it. A country once built on second, third, fourth chances, has now dedicated itself to the proposition that the tiniest mistake should destroy your entire life. I am pleased to see that sometimes, we take a micro-step back the other direction. But I have seen no indication that the swing will ever go the other way. How could it? What lawmaker would ever advocate being softer on crime? What company would encourage what is "illegal"? And when the entire conversation is controlled by those who will never encourage those points of view because it would be unpopular, your average American will never have the conversation on any other terms either.
      - Danihan 9y ago
        You can't even discuss it on HN without being accused of being snarky / defeatist (really?) / or having the sub-thread deleted. (see Dang's comment)

RickS 9y ago

In addition to being needlessly snarky, you're effectively saying "progress doesn't count unless it goes all the way". That's bullshit. Attitudes regarding whether people should be jailed for substance abuse, and whether people are permanently morally tarnished for same, are loosening over time in the same way that gay rights, etc, have. Just because it isn't the dem's top campaign promise doesn't mean it isn't making progress.

Danihan 9y ago
I didn't say it had to be all or nothing. I'm asking to see ANY political progress towards decriminalizing drugs, particularly drugs besides marijuana, which isn't the drug that is generally causing these felony records.

__jal 9y ago

Unnecessarily bitchy defeatism aside, the answer to your question is the Democratic Party[1]. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/08/01/cory-booker-puts-marijuana-legalization-at-the-center-of-his-new-racial-justice-bil/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/08/01/cory-...

Danihan 9y ago
It's neither, just correcting misconceptions. It's tiring to constantly hear people saying we're "making progress" while we continue to perpetuate the same policy problems that have obviously caused issues for decades and decades. Correct me if I'm wrong but the bill you mentioned only seems to deal with marijuana, which I don't think is how most people get drug felonies.
- Mtinie 9y ago
  It may not be most, but according to statistics[1] from 2015, marijuana accounted for 24% of the drug case sentences. Reducing or eliminating these would be a major step in the right direction and would in my book count as "making progress". 1 - https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-publications/research-publications/2016/FY15_Overview_Federal_Criminal_Cases.pdf https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-pu... (top of page 9)
  - Danihan 9y ago
    Another tepid form of progress is fewer "mandatory minimum" sentences, on page 8. That's nice to see at least, thank you for the PDF.
- jsmthrowaway 9y ago
  > Correct me if I'm wrong but the bill you mentioned only seems to deal with marijuana, which I don't think is how most people get drug felonies. You'd be surprised. Lots of weed? Cash? Baggies? Scale? Intent. Felony. Civil forfeiture (State of California v. A bag of $25,000 in cash). Go directly to Chino. Do not pass go. It's usually the intent to distribute that ends people, and that does happen a lot with marijuana. Simple possession is easier to wiggle out of these days, depending on where you are and if it isn't much. Over a half ounce of marijuana in Virginia used to be a few years in prison (not sure if it still is). I'm carrying over a half ounce on my person right now and it'd be fine. Jurisdiction sucks.

cestith 9y ago

The Libertarian Party is. The Democratic Party has very limited plans in that direction, but they are working toward cannabis reform.

mcappleton 9y ago

It's not just drug offenses. Now you can go to jail if you speed over 20mph over the speed limit even if your being safe about it

mcappleton 9y ago

It's not just drug offenses. Now you can go to jail if you speed over 20mph over the speed limit even if your being safe about it

dang 9y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14912009 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14912009 and marked it off-topic.

Danihan 9y ago
I don't think discussing a leading cause of felonies is off-topic in a thread about employing felons.
- dang 9y ago
  It really is, because the more generic the tangent, the more force it has to carry off the entire thread. IMO it's an important point that needs to be better understood. I wrote about it recently at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14917723 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14917723 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14912821 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14912821 if anyone's interested.