4 ms·

I don't like it, but I have to admit you're most certainly correct that it's only a matter of time before human genetic-enhancement is commonplace. Best case,

by jcadam 9y ago

I don't like it, but I have to admit you're most certainly correct that it's only a matter of time before human genetic-enhancement is commonplace. Best case, we'll be living in a Gattaca-esque world before the end of the century.

gjtorikian 9y ago
You do realize Gattaca was a dystopia right? That Ethan Hawke's entire character arc was proving that an unmodified human is just as capable as a modified one? That best case is still a horrible future.
- adrianN 9y ago
  Gattaca was a supremely unrealistic plot because Ethan Hawke's character had any chance to compete with enhanced humans.
  - maxerickson 9y ago
    They filled that hole by only using screening; they didn't enhance anyone, they just picked the best embryos. You could claim that it is unrealistic that they would be able to do advanced screening but not able to do any changes. And then the next thing to debate is whether he really had a heart condition or not. People come down on both sides.
- conception 9y ago
  Actually it was proving that being clever you can cheat the system. He showed, several time, why he wasn't as capable and probably put everyone on the mission in jeopardy because of it (Do they have contact lens replacements in space when no one else needs them? Probably not.) That is one of the reasons why I love that movie, Ethan is the bad guy. Though that's probably not what the director was going for.
  - maxerickson 9y ago
    Do you have a hot take on Harrison Bergeron?
    - qbrass 9y ago
      He was a 14 year old with a god complex who was arrested under suspicion of planning to overthrow the government, and proved them right when he attempted exactly that after escaping custody. He and his compatriots were dealt with as any other traitors would have been while being caught in mid coup.
  - mr_overalls 9y ago
    Ethan's character bothered me, too. The guy was hiding a serious heart defect, and while the viewer was meant to sympathize with his drive, it's not going to be much fun for his fellow crew members when a sudden infarc renders him unconscious and useless during some touch-and-go orbital emergency on the far side of Titan.
komali2 9y ago
I don't see why that has to be best case. My best case scenario is that humankind has overcome tribal instincts, united around common causes, overcome arbitrary prejudices, and... well basically Star Trek.
- ue_ 9y ago
  Unfortunately though, tribal or not, there isn't much unity; people have fundamentally different ideas of how the world works. On the left we see our society as a class society, others see it as merely a society of free association. It is hard to achieve a post-scarcity society because of the way in which materials are located in the earth. There are many problems to be addressed, ecological ones not least. As much as I would like a Star Trek, I think it is a more remote goal than even the Communists and anarchists who are frequently ridiculed for utopian ideology.
- arrosenberg 9y ago
  In Star Trek the genetically enhanced humans started a massive world war that almost wiped out humanity. That's what Khan was. In the Star Trek universe, genetic enhancement is illegal because of it (caused some problems for one of the characters in DS9).
  - komali2 9y ago
    I'm kind of shooting my own desires in the foot here, but that was a fiction. We don't really have evidence for what happens when a generation of much-stronger, much-smarter than average humans are born, and subsequently give birth to another generation of even stronger even smarter kids. I'm hoping it's not a bunch of sociopathic Khans and that if we can figure out how to make smarter babies, we can also avoid making sociopathic murderous ones. EDIT: On the other hand, I'm seeing the fear now - we create 100 of these superkids, and it turns out sociopathy is simply more fit than non sociopathy. They use their superior intelligence to out-perform "normal" humans, breed more of themselves, take over the world, and "normal" humans are gone. Bad for normal humans, good for... whatever humans are after? I guess it comes down to whether you're willing to accept that the continuance of some version of the human race is better than the potential extinction of all of the human race (which I believe is inevitable if we don't start making changes like this).
eli_gottlieb 9y ago
You realize that enhanced alleles are going to spread into the gene pool the old-fashioned way, right? No society has ever managed to prevent the upper classes from fucking the lower classes.

by jcadam 9y ago

gjtorikian 9y ago

You do realize Gattaca was a dystopia right? That Ethan Hawke's entire character arc was proving that an unmodified human is just as capable as a modified one? That best case is still a horrible future.

adrianN 9y ago
Gattaca was a supremely unrealistic plot because Ethan Hawke's character had any chance to compete with enhanced humans.
- maxerickson 9y ago
  They filled that hole by only using screening; they didn't enhance anyone, they just picked the best embryos. You could claim that it is unrealistic that they would be able to do advanced screening but not able to do any changes. And then the next thing to debate is whether he really had a heart condition or not. People come down on both sides.
conception 9y ago
Actually it was proving that being clever you can cheat the system. He showed, several time, why he wasn't as capable and probably put everyone on the mission in jeopardy because of it (Do they have contact lens replacements in space when no one else needs them? Probably not.) That is one of the reasons why I love that movie, Ethan is the bad guy. Though that's probably not what the director was going for.
- maxerickson 9y ago
  Do you have a hot take on Harrison Bergeron?
  - qbrass 9y ago
    He was a 14 year old with a god complex who was arrested under suspicion of planning to overthrow the government, and proved them right when he attempted exactly that after escaping custody. He and his compatriots were dealt with as any other traitors would have been while being caught in mid coup.
- mr_overalls 9y ago
  Ethan's character bothered me, too. The guy was hiding a serious heart defect, and while the viewer was meant to sympathize with his drive, it's not going to be much fun for his fellow crew members when a sudden infarc renders him unconscious and useless during some touch-and-go orbital emergency on the far side of Titan.

komali2 9y ago

I don't see why that has to be best case. My best case scenario is that humankind has overcome tribal instincts, united around common causes, overcome arbitrary prejudices, and... well basically Star Trek.

ue_ 9y ago
Unfortunately though, tribal or not, there isn't much unity; people have fundamentally different ideas of how the world works. On the left we see our society as a class society, others see it as merely a society of free association. It is hard to achieve a post-scarcity society because of the way in which materials are located in the earth. There are many problems to be addressed, ecological ones not least. As much as I would like a Star Trek, I think it is a more remote goal than even the Communists and anarchists who are frequently ridiculed for utopian ideology.
arrosenberg 9y ago
In Star Trek the genetically enhanced humans started a massive world war that almost wiped out humanity. That's what Khan was. In the Star Trek universe, genetic enhancement is illegal because of it (caused some problems for one of the characters in DS9).
- komali2 9y ago
  I'm kind of shooting my own desires in the foot here, but that was a fiction. We don't really have evidence for what happens when a generation of much-stronger, much-smarter than average humans are born, and subsequently give birth to another generation of even stronger even smarter kids. I'm hoping it's not a bunch of sociopathic Khans and that if we can figure out how to make smarter babies, we can also avoid making sociopathic murderous ones. EDIT: On the other hand, I'm seeing the fear now - we create 100 of these superkids, and it turns out sociopathy is simply more fit than non sociopathy. They use their superior intelligence to out-perform "normal" humans, breed more of themselves, take over the world, and "normal" humans are gone. Bad for normal humans, good for... whatever humans are after? I guess it comes down to whether you're willing to accept that the continuance of some version of the human race is better than the potential extinction of all of the human race (which I believe is inevitable if we don't start making changes like this).

eli_gottlieb 9y ago

You realize that enhanced alleles are going to spread into the gene pool the old-fashioned way, right? No society has ever managed to prevent the upper classes from fucking the lower classes.