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Wow, I really am amazed how few consumer protections you seem to have! In the UK we're protected on two levels: firstly the "Distance Selling Regulation" means

Wow, I really am amazed how few consumer protections you seem to have! In the UK we're protected on two levels: firstly the "Distance Selling Regulation" means we have the right to cancel many contracts/purchases made not-in-person within 14 days of delivery. And secondly, if a good is faulty, not as described, or unfit for purpose then we have a right to a refund under those terms also. Probably because of these already strong rights, Amazon UK (and most retailers) go beyond that and simply offer a 30 day "no questions asked" return policy in most cases. I didn't realise until now how much I took it for granted!

_Codemonkeyism 9y ago
Similiar in Germany.
- Tomte 9y ago
  Of course, the Directive is a EU Directive. Whether the UK will keep those protections is something we'll see.
cfn 9y ago
Be that as it may, I had a similar experience with an independent seller at Amazon UK. I bought a pan that arrived with a small defect and they told me I would have to pay the postage back (25 Euros on a £30 or £40 pan - I was buying from abroad). I also ended up keeping the pan and now avoid independent sellers as much as possible.
- richthegeek 9y ago
  Interesting - I certainly would have raised that to support!
- jorvi 9y ago
  Why not do a chargeback on your creditcard (or raise a PayPal claim)? The law is very clear, if an item is faulty or not as described the seller is on the hook for all costs. This includes return shipping and/or sending you a replacement. A lot of sellers will try to strong-arm you but if you just do the chargeback/claim they have no option but to eat the loss. Creditcard companies and PayPal thankfully nearly always back buyers, tilting the power balance back to the consumers' side :)
  - hak8or 9y ago
    In Europe, for some sad reason credit cards are very rarely used and many stores don't accept them. Not to mention, if you do a charge back against a store like Walmart or Amazon, you won't be able to shop there anymore because they will ban you.
    - jorvi 9y ago
      In day-to-day shopping creditcards are very rarely used, but I'm pretty confident that for internet purchases creditcards aren't that rare. And as far as being banned goes: of course you first raise the issue with Amazon. Amazon says its an independent seller, go deal with them. You try to work it out with the seller, he doesn't budge, you show him the law. Still doesn't budge, you raise it with Amazon again. If Amazon doesn't budge, tell them that you are lawfully entitled and will do a chargeback, and that they can deal with the independent seller acting illegally (and if they're smart they just chargeback the seller). If they would still ban you then, that will be one hell of a juicy court case.
    - theonemind 9y ago
      Have you ever gotten banned somewhere for a chargeback? I haven't that I know of. But, then, I never reach that point with anyone I've ever wanted to do any more business with, so maybe I got banned without noticing.
  - fnj 9y ago
    > Why not do a chargeback Do you really think "I bought something sight unseen and now I don't like it, waah" gets you special snowflake protection? There is no hint that the item is faulty or not as described.
    - Sleeep 9y ago
      If that's the law then yes?
      - fnj 9y ago
- msq 9y ago
  Always talk to Amazon customer support if the independent seller is making a fuss about warranty or return.
  - chaostheory 9y ago
    Did this myself. Didn't help. All it did was add to the frustration and anger. I'm glad Amazon changed their policy.
    - bitJericho 9y ago
      Amazon policy for defective items is a full refund, and free return postage. https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=1161246#return https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...
      - chaostheory 9y ago
        That's not what repeated emails and calls to Amazon customer service said for a defective $350 Exergen thermometer. I kept trying to escalate the issue. Amazon Customer service kept apologizing, telling me that they could do nothing. This happened about a year ago. Still shop at Amazon, but I definitely think more before buying bigger ticket items and I comparison shop now. Even though this policy change is great, I don't feel that I can revert back to my previous behavior of just mindlessly buying stuff at Amazon because of faith that they'll take care of you. I am still especially wary of buying from 3rd parties on Amazon unless it's a throwaway item, and we refuse to buy anything that isn't Prime.
- stordoff 9y ago
  FWIW, the A-Z guarantee would have covered this: > Your request meets one of our A-to-z Guarantee conditions below: [...] You want to return an item internationally and the Seller does not (1) provide a return address within the UK, (2) provide a pre-paid return label, or (3) offer a full refund without requesting the item be returned. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201889730 https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeI...
drstewart 9y ago
Wow, only 30 days? That's very very low. REI and other stores here in the US offer up to a year no questions asked return policy. I didn't realize how great that was compared to the UK!
- ashark 9y ago
  > Wow, only 30 days? That's very very low. REI and other stores here in the US offer up to a year no questions asked return policy. 30 minimum required by law. Not maximum.
- gozur88 9y ago
  REI is unusual, and famously gets returns on things like clothing and tents that have been used for months.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Wow, only 30 days? That's very very low. REI and other stores here in the US offer up to a year no questions asked return policy. REI is unusually customer-friendly, because it's a consuner cooperative. Most US stores do not offer anything like a year no-questions-asked return policy (30 days, many-questions-asked is more typical.)
dsfyu404ed 9y ago
Those "protections" come right back at you in your CoL. I'd rather purchase stuff without being able to return it than pay a price that includes my statistical risk of returning things.
ryanwaggoner 9y ago
the "Distance Selling Regulation" means we have the right to cancel many contracts/purchases made not-in-person within 14 days of delivery. First of all, the Consumer Contracts Directive replaced that in 2014, no? Second, how exactly would this have protected the buyer? Maybe no restocking fee and only difference between free and basic shipping? In EU, does seller HAVE to pay for return shipping? Third, you know that "protection" isn't free, right? You're paying for that in terms of higher prices and lost economic opportunities. Finally, the pro-EU, anti-US condescension laced with pity is so tiresome and ignorant. We get it, things work differently there. Some are better, some worse. It's hardly paradise. (For the record, I've lived in the US and the EU.)
- kfriede 9y ago
  Not to mention, not all of the EU is the same. Want to return something in Germany? Forget about it. Buying from an independent seller on Amazon is similar to buying on eBay. You're taking the risk of not having the customer service that large corporations can afford. Plus, Amazon customer support will often help out with claims where the seller is in the wrong (e.g. item does not match description).
  - sdoering 9y ago
    I don't know in what Germany you are living. But with the former "Fernabsatzgesetz" (now integrated into our BGB) we have the right to return everything we order online within a period of two weeks. Never had a problem returning anything ordered online. Ok one should nonetheless read the terms before ordering.
  - morsch 9y ago
    Not to mention, not all of the EU is the same. No, that would be rather dull. But in terms of returning stuff you bought on the Internet, it pretty much is: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Rights_Directive_2011 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Rights_Directive_20... "The current varying lengths of the withdrawal periods both between the Member States and for distance and off-premises contracts cause legal uncertainty and compliance costs. The same withdrawal period should apply to all distance and off-premises contracts. In the case of service contracts, the withdrawal period should expire after 14 days from the conclusion of the contract. In the case of sales contracts, the withdrawal period should expire after 14 days from the day on which the consumer or a third party other than the carrier and indicated by the consumer, acquires physical possession of the goods."
hsod 9y ago
Sometimes I think Europe's chief export is incredulity :) > And secondly, if a good is faulty, not as described, or unfit for purpose then we have a right to a refund under those terms also. None of this applies here, OP simply wasn't happy with their purchase. Does it really make sense for the seller to have to pay out of pocket for round-trip shipping on a heavy iron pan because OP didn't bother reading the listing or looking at the pictures?

_Codemonkeyism 9y ago

Similiar in Germany.

Tomte 9y ago
Of course, the Directive is a EU Directive. Whether the UK will keep those protections is something we'll see.

cfn 9y ago

Be that as it may, I had a similar experience with an independent seller at Amazon UK. I bought a pan that arrived with a small defect and they told me I would have to pay the postage back (25 Euros on a £30 or £40 pan - I was buying from abroad). I also ended up keeping the pan and now avoid independent sellers as much as possible.

richthegeek 9y ago
Interesting - I certainly would have raised that to support!
jorvi 9y ago
Why not do a chargeback on your creditcard (or raise a PayPal claim)? The law is very clear, if an item is faulty or not as described the seller is on the hook for all costs. This includes return shipping and/or sending you a replacement. A lot of sellers will try to strong-arm you but if you just do the chargeback/claim they have no option but to eat the loss. Creditcard companies and PayPal thankfully nearly always back buyers, tilting the power balance back to the consumers' side :)
- hak8or 9y ago
  In Europe, for some sad reason credit cards are very rarely used and many stores don't accept them. Not to mention, if you do a charge back against a store like Walmart or Amazon, you won't be able to shop there anymore because they will ban you.
  - jorvi 9y ago
    In day-to-day shopping creditcards are very rarely used, but I'm pretty confident that for internet purchases creditcards aren't that rare. And as far as being banned goes: of course you first raise the issue with Amazon. Amazon says its an independent seller, go deal with them. You try to work it out with the seller, he doesn't budge, you show him the law. Still doesn't budge, you raise it with Amazon again. If Amazon doesn't budge, tell them that you are lawfully entitled and will do a chargeback, and that they can deal with the independent seller acting illegally (and if they're smart they just chargeback the seller). If they would still ban you then, that will be one hell of a juicy court case.
  - theonemind 9y ago
    Have you ever gotten banned somewhere for a chargeback? I haven't that I know of. But, then, I never reach that point with anyone I've ever wanted to do any more business with, so maybe I got banned without noticing.
- fnj 9y ago
  > Why not do a chargeback Do you really think "I bought something sight unseen and now I don't like it, waah" gets you special snowflake protection? There is no hint that the item is faulty or not as described.
  - Sleeep 9y ago
    If that's the law then yes?
    - fnj 9y ago
msq 9y ago
Always talk to Amazon customer support if the independent seller is making a fuss about warranty or return.
- chaostheory 9y ago
  Did this myself. Didn't help. All it did was add to the frustration and anger. I'm glad Amazon changed their policy.
  - bitJericho 9y ago
    Amazon policy for defective items is a full refund, and free return postage. https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=1161246#return https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...
    - chaostheory 9y ago
      That's not what repeated emails and calls to Amazon customer service said for a defective $350 Exergen thermometer. I kept trying to escalate the issue. Amazon Customer service kept apologizing, telling me that they could do nothing. This happened about a year ago. Still shop at Amazon, but I definitely think more before buying bigger ticket items and I comparison shop now. Even though this policy change is great, I don't feel that I can revert back to my previous behavior of just mindlessly buying stuff at Amazon because of faith that they'll take care of you. I am still especially wary of buying from 3rd parties on Amazon unless it's a throwaway item, and we refuse to buy anything that isn't Prime.
stordoff 9y ago
FWIW, the A-Z guarantee would have covered this: > Your request meets one of our A-to-z Guarantee conditions below: [...] You want to return an item internationally and the Seller does not (1) provide a return address within the UK, (2) provide a pre-paid return label, or (3) offer a full refund without requesting the item be returned. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201889730 https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeI...

drstewart 9y ago

Wow, only 30 days? That's very very low. REI and other stores here in the US offer up to a year no questions asked return policy. I didn't realize how great that was compared to the UK!

ashark 9y ago
> Wow, only 30 days? That's very very low. REI and other stores here in the US offer up to a year no questions asked return policy. 30 minimum required by law. Not maximum.
gozur88 9y ago
REI is unusual, and famously gets returns on things like clothing and tents that have been used for months.
dragonwriter 9y ago
> Wow, only 30 days? That's very very low. REI and other stores here in the US offer up to a year no questions asked return policy. REI is unusually customer-friendly, because it's a consuner cooperative. Most US stores do not offer anything like a year no-questions-asked return policy (30 days, many-questions-asked is more typical.)

dsfyu404ed 9y ago

Those "protections" come right back at you in your CoL. I'd rather purchase stuff without being able to return it than pay a price that includes my statistical risk of returning things.

ryanwaggoner 9y ago

the "Distance Selling Regulation" means we have the right to cancel many contracts/purchases made not-in-person within 14 days of delivery. First of all, the Consumer Contracts Directive replaced that in 2014, no? Second, how exactly would this have protected the buyer? Maybe no restocking fee and only difference between free and basic shipping? In EU, does seller HAVE to pay for return shipping? Third, you know that "protection" isn't free, right? You're paying for that in terms of higher prices and lost economic opportunities. Finally, the pro-EU, anti-US condescension laced with pity is so tiresome and ignorant. We get it, things work differently there. Some are better, some worse. It's hardly paradise. (For the record, I've lived in the US and the EU.)

kfriede 9y ago
Not to mention, not all of the EU is the same. Want to return something in Germany? Forget about it. Buying from an independent seller on Amazon is similar to buying on eBay. You're taking the risk of not having the customer service that large corporations can afford. Plus, Amazon customer support will often help out with claims where the seller is in the wrong (e.g. item does not match description).
- sdoering 9y ago
  I don't know in what Germany you are living. But with the former "Fernabsatzgesetz" (now integrated into our BGB) we have the right to return everything we order online within a period of two weeks. Never had a problem returning anything ordered online. Ok one should nonetheless read the terms before ordering.
- morsch 9y ago
  Not to mention, not all of the EU is the same. No, that would be rather dull. But in terms of returning stuff you bought on the Internet, it pretty much is: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Rights_Directive_2011 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Rights_Directive_20... "The current varying lengths of the withdrawal periods both between the Member States and for distance and off-premises contracts cause legal uncertainty and compliance costs. The same withdrawal period should apply to all distance and off-premises contracts. In the case of service contracts, the withdrawal period should expire after 14 days from the conclusion of the contract. In the case of sales contracts, the withdrawal period should expire after 14 days from the day on which the consumer or a third party other than the carrier and indicated by the consumer, acquires physical possession of the goods."

hsod 9y ago

Sometimes I think Europe's chief export is incredulity :) > And secondly, if a good is faulty, not as described, or unfit for purpose then we have a right to a refund under those terms also. None of this applies here, OP simply wasn't happy with their purchase. Does it really make sense for the seller to have to pay out of pocket for round-trip shipping on a heavy iron pan because OP didn't bother reading the listing or looking at the pictures?