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If you get fired for not handing over your personal information to the government after being wrongfully detained then, depending on your country, you have a po

If you get fired for not handing over your personal information to the government after being wrongfully detained then, depending on your country, you have a potential lawsuit on your hands

lotsofpulp 9y ago
When it comes to employment, the law only matters if you can afford to forgo income from that particular employer, and if you can afford the lawyers. For many people, if they don't have another stream of income or support from family or friends, it's effectively useless to them.
- kakarot 9y ago
  My integrity in the face of tyranny and the future of my country is worth more than my livelihood. Each and every time someone bends to the will of the police state like this, it makes them a little bit stronger.
  - pavel_lishin 9y ago
    It's easy to say. It's hard to do, especially when you have a family to support. I'm not saying you're wrong - we should push back against things like this - but not everyone's cut out to be a martyr, and some people aren't in a position to martyr only themselves.
    - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
      It depends. A software dev with a month of slush fund in the bank and a wife who can mostly manage the household is in a very good position to keep their mouth shut on principal, especially if the facts of the case are something the larger community can empathize with. People will fund a kickstarter to pay your rent while you're in jail if you're in jail for a good reason. Getting publicity is the hard part.
      - pavel_lishin 9y ago
        Yup. I was in that position 18 months ago, and I would likely fight the law. But today, we have a rambunctious 17 month old, and while my wife could raise her single-handedly for an indefinite amount of time - single parents do, after all - it would be incredibly difficult and unfair to both her and my kid, and all the family members who would have to increasingly begin to pitch in. For starters, if I were facing a jail term of longer than about a month, she would likely have to move to a much cheaper, further apartment. A move isn't free, and a move isn't easy - neither is finding a new daycare, nor losing the hours in the day that get eaten up by the worse commute and having to drop off and pick up the child. Sorry if some of what I said above is obvious, but a lot of people on HN are single and unattached, and these ramifications may not come as easily to them.
  - rhizome 9y ago
    Do you have enough money saved to defend that integrity on the spot? Lawyer? How long would you be in jail if your bail was set at $500,000?
    - kakarot 9y ago
      Until I get released or go to court. "I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for law." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
  - cakedoggie 9y ago
    So when have you actually tested this, otherwise it is just meaningless words.
    - kakarot 9y ago
      I've had several encounters with police in which my rights or the rights of others were trampled upon, and I have held my ground in each of them. Take me to jail if you must. I have sat in jail. Making it just about me and my life is selfish. If refusing to relinquish my right not testify against myself causes me personal suffering, it is my duty as a free mind to accept this personal suffering in order to stave off an ever-encroaching police state and take part in the struggle to give my posterity a better world to live in.
pavel_lishin 9y ago
Potential lawsuits don't pay my rent next month.
- kakarot 9y ago
  We all have our own priorities which influence the attachments we allow ourselves to have with the possessions and people around us, and how comfortable we require ourselves to be. It certainly complicates things when there are mouths to be fed, human or animal.

If you get fired for not handing over your personal information to the government after being wrongfully detained then, depending on your country, you have a potential lawsuit on your hands

lotsofpulp 9y ago

When it comes to employment, the law only matters if you can afford to forgo income from that particular employer, and if you can afford the lawyers. For many people, if they don't have another stream of income or support from family or friends, it's effectively useless to them.

kakarot 9y ago
My integrity in the face of tyranny and the future of my country is worth more than my livelihood. Each and every time someone bends to the will of the police state like this, it makes them a little bit stronger.
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  It's easy to say. It's hard to do, especially when you have a family to support. I'm not saying you're wrong - we should push back against things like this - but not everyone's cut out to be a martyr, and some people aren't in a position to martyr only themselves.
  - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
    It depends. A software dev with a month of slush fund in the bank and a wife who can mostly manage the household is in a very good position to keep their mouth shut on principal, especially if the facts of the case are something the larger community can empathize with. People will fund a kickstarter to pay your rent while you're in jail if you're in jail for a good reason. Getting publicity is the hard part.
    - pavel_lishin 9y ago
      Yup. I was in that position 18 months ago, and I would likely fight the law. But today, we have a rambunctious 17 month old, and while my wife could raise her single-handedly for an indefinite amount of time - single parents do, after all - it would be incredibly difficult and unfair to both her and my kid, and all the family members who would have to increasingly begin to pitch in. For starters, if I were facing a jail term of longer than about a month, she would likely have to move to a much cheaper, further apartment. A move isn't free, and a move isn't easy - neither is finding a new daycare, nor losing the hours in the day that get eaten up by the worse commute and having to drop off and pick up the child. Sorry if some of what I said above is obvious, but a lot of people on HN are single and unattached, and these ramifications may not come as easily to them.
- rhizome 9y ago
  Do you have enough money saved to defend that integrity on the spot? Lawyer? How long would you be in jail if your bail was set at $500,000?
  - kakarot 9y ago
    Until I get released or go to court. "I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for law." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
- cakedoggie 9y ago
  So when have you actually tested this, otherwise it is just meaningless words.
  - kakarot 9y ago
    I've had several encounters with police in which my rights or the rights of others were trampled upon, and I have held my ground in each of them. Take me to jail if you must. I have sat in jail. Making it just about me and my life is selfish. If refusing to relinquish my right not testify against myself causes me personal suffering, it is my duty as a free mind to accept this personal suffering in order to stave off an ever-encroaching police state and take part in the struggle to give my posterity a better world to live in.

pavel_lishin 9y ago

Potential lawsuits don't pay my rent next month.

kakarot 9y ago
We all have our own priorities which influence the attachments we allow ourselves to have with the possessions and people around us, and how comfortable we require ourselves to be. It certainly complicates things when there are mouths to be fed, human or animal.