5 ms·

Here's a question I'm trying to understand: if I intend to travel while working, where do I say I'm "from"? How do taxes work? Suppose that I have an apartmen

Here's a question I'm trying to understand: if I intend to travel while working, where do I say I'm "from"? How do taxes work? Suppose that I have an apartment in some country, not necessarily my country of citizenship, and I will sublet it while I travel. I suppose, to freelance, one needs to create a "company", but where is that company based? Does it need to have an address? If I am a citizen of one country, a resident of another, but I'm working while I travel in _other_ countries, where do I owe taxes? These are the roadblocks I find most complicated, beyond just "finding the job", I don't know how the legal "infrastructure" should work when you are freelancing and in such an odd living situation.

blakenomad 9y ago
Great question. I still run all my taxes as if I'm based in the UK, even though I travel and work remotely. I am taxed as an independent contractor. I'm considering setting up as an Estonian e-resident soon though (https://e-estonia.com/solutions/e-identity/e-residency/ https://e-estonia.com/solutions/e-identity/e-residency/) to change where I pay my taxes. In terms of working while in other countries, it's a grey area for sure. I was travelling extensively in Asia last year and I was on tourist visas. Although I know Thailand for example is considering introducing a 'nomad visa' very soon.
- dharma1 9y ago
  Why pay taxes in Estonia rather than the UK?
- vram22 9y ago
  >Although I know Thailand for example is considering introducing a 'nomad visa' very soon. Interesting, got any more info or links on that? Maybe even to relevant Thai government sites where one can follow up on the developments on this later?
  - curun1r 9y ago
    Probably not what he was referring to, but for someone planning to work for a Western company and live in Thailand, you might consider the Thailand Elite [1] program. It's 500,000 Baht ($14k) which is good for 5 years and allows stays up to 6 months per visit, meaning much more infrequent visa runs. It also comes with black car airport transfers and priority lines through customs, so it makes traveling back and forth to/from the company office a bit more convenient. $14k is kinda pricy, but if you're pretty sure you'll be spending most of the next 5 years there, $2800/yr is pretty easy to justify when you're earning a Western salary and spending ~$200-300/mo in rent and under $5 for nice meals out (that's in Chiang Mai...if you want beaches or Bangkok add around 50%, which is still pretty cheap.) Source: I spent a bunch of time in Thailand last year and considered trying to make the move, but the job I ended up finding didn't work with the time zone. However I loved the country and would jump at the chance to work remotely from there. [1] http://www.thai-elite.com http://www.thai-elite.com
    - vram22 9y ago
      Thanks, that's an interesting option.
    - vram22 9y ago
      Which parts of Thailand did you visit, and which did you like more/most?
      - curun1r 9y ago
        I visited Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Phuket and Koh Lanta, Koh Phi Phi, Koh Samui, Koh Phangan, Koh Tao. Bangkok was my least favorite. Traffic is terrible and it got kinda depressing to be offered sex as often as happens to a white man when he goes there. Chiang Mai is amazing. It's beautiful, has a huge expat community, the people are much friendlier than Bangkok and the food is amazing. It's really easy for foreigners to live/work from there. Phuket wasn't my favorite, but I only stayed in the town, which doesn't have much of a reputation. Koh Lanta was pretty, but the beaches weren't particularly picturesque. I spent some time working at a coworking facility (Kohub) which I can't recommend highly enough. It's a little dead in Green Season, but not too bad. Koh Phi Phi is a lot more picturesque, but it's a party island and I didn't get a decent night's sleep in my time there. It's kinda like Vegas in that it's great for about 36 hours and then starts to get old pretty quickly. Koh Samui and Koh Phangan were really pretty but also really touristy. I'm not sure I would opt for an extended stay in either. Koh Tao is a diving island with mediocre diving, so there's not much point going there if you're not learning to dive in some capacity. But it's a great place to get an Open Water or Rescue Diver certification. If I were working a remote job while in Thailand, I'd probably choose either Chiang Mai or Koh Lanta to start. But it's easy enough to move around, so unless you've got kids, there's no reason to settle on just one place.
- objclxt 9y ago
  > I'm considering setting up as an Estonian e-resident soon though (https://e-estonia.com/solutions/e-identity/e-residency/ https://e-estonia.com/solutions/e-identity/e-residency/) to change where I pay my taxes. Talk to a solicitor before you do this unless you want HMRC to come a knocking. Estonian eResidency is not actual residency, and it won't change the country you're resident in for personal tax purposes. You could set up a company in Estonia, but if you're an independent contractor and all the profits from that company flow directly back to you HMRC may again have questions (and you'll still have to pay taxes on the dividends you receive at the UK rates).
  - TomMarius 9y ago
    The way its done here in Europe (don't know about USA) is to have most of your spending billed to the company as an expense. You take very little to no money out of the company.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - blakenomad 9y ago
    Yep I understand that. The idea with e-residency is you cover your business expenses pretty much exclusively the company card you acquire when you establish your company in Estonia. This covers travel and accommodation primarily. Everything else I must pay tax on as usual though HMRC. Any cash I want in my UK bank account for example is tax-deductable.
koliber 9y ago
With many of these things, the answer is "it depends". If you are interested in specific advice, please name the country where you are a citizen, where you are a resident, and where you are traveling, for how long, and on what type visa.
itake 9y ago
American digital nomad (not an accountant) here that transitioned an on-site w2 job in SF to full remote. state taxes: I initially moved to FL where there is no state income tax. I have a FL driver's license and mailing address. In FL, you do not have to file anything. federal taxes: I will qualify for FEIE [0] by being outside of the USA for the qualifying amount of time which basically means I do not have to pay federal income tax on my first ~$105k, but I still need to pay FICA. In theory, most countries that I visit, I probably should be paying their taxes, but since my money only stays in America, the risk of getting caught is very low. It is my understanding that there are things that can be done to get your taxes down to 0% if I was a contractor, but I don't make enough for me to take advantage of that. [0] https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-earned-income-exclusion https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/fore...
- kbutler 9y ago
  I was intrigued by the "Foreign Earned Income Exclusion". From that link https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-earned-income-exclusion https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/fore...: 2. Is your tax home* in a foreign country? ... b. No. You CANNOT claim the foreign earned income exclusion, the foreign housing exclusion, or the foreign housing deduction. * Tax home: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-earned-income-exclusion-tax-home-in-foreign-country https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/fore... "Your tax home is the general area of your main place of business, employment, or post of duty, regardless of where you maintain your family home. ... You are not considered to have a tax home in a foreign country for any period in which your abode is in the United States." The separate "physical presence outside the US for 330 days/year" is a later criterion, and is not relevant if your "tax home" is in the US.
jorgemf 9y ago
It depends of they laws of the country where you stay. For example, my country requires me to pay taxes if I live there for more than 6 months a year (180 days). And theoretically you pay taxes where you live at that moment, but if you only stay for a month and them move to another then it is complicated, most people justify that they are on holidays there and pay taxes in their "usual" living country. I think most countries doesn't have laws to regulate this type of things.
EduardoBautista 9y ago
Countries usually specify at what point you owe them money. You can live in Tijuana, Mexico and commute to San Diego, California every day and won't owe anything to the IRS (as long as you are not a citizen or permanent resident). Now, getting your employer to pay you without withholding US taxes is another story, not many employers have experience with this. Not sure if you are supposed to file for a tax return at the end of the year but you still would owe the Mexican government taxes.
- kbutler 9y ago
  This appears to be false: "Your tax home is the general area of your main place of business, employment, or post of duty, regardless of where you maintain your family home. " https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-earned-income-exclusion-tax-home-in-foreign-country https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/fore...

blakenomad 9y ago

Great question. I still run all my taxes as if I'm based in the UK, even though I travel and work remotely. I am taxed as an independent contractor. I'm considering setting up as an Estonian e-resident soon though (https://e-estonia.com/solutions/e-identity/e-residency/ https://e-estonia.com/solutions/e-identity/e-residency/) to change where I pay my taxes. In terms of working while in other countries, it's a grey area for sure. I was travelling extensively in Asia last year and I was on tourist visas. Although I know Thailand for example is considering introducing a 'nomad visa' very soon.

dharma1 9y ago
Why pay taxes in Estonia rather than the UK?
vram22 9y ago
>Although I know Thailand for example is considering introducing a 'nomad visa' very soon. Interesting, got any more info or links on that? Maybe even to relevant Thai government sites where one can follow up on the developments on this later?
- curun1r 9y ago
  Probably not what he was referring to, but for someone planning to work for a Western company and live in Thailand, you might consider the Thailand Elite [1] program. It's 500,000 Baht ($14k) which is good for 5 years and allows stays up to 6 months per visit, meaning much more infrequent visa runs. It also comes with black car airport transfers and priority lines through customs, so it makes traveling back and forth to/from the company office a bit more convenient. $14k is kinda pricy, but if you're pretty sure you'll be spending most of the next 5 years there, $2800/yr is pretty easy to justify when you're earning a Western salary and spending ~$200-300/mo in rent and under $5 for nice meals out (that's in Chiang Mai...if you want beaches or Bangkok add around 50%, which is still pretty cheap.) Source: I spent a bunch of time in Thailand last year and considered trying to make the move, but the job I ended up finding didn't work with the time zone. However I loved the country and would jump at the chance to work remotely from there. [1] http://www.thai-elite.com http://www.thai-elite.com
  - vram22 9y ago
    Thanks, that's an interesting option.
  - vram22 9y ago
    Which parts of Thailand did you visit, and which did you like more/most?
    - curun1r 9y ago
      I visited Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Phuket and Koh Lanta, Koh Phi Phi, Koh Samui, Koh Phangan, Koh Tao. Bangkok was my least favorite. Traffic is terrible and it got kinda depressing to be offered sex as often as happens to a white man when he goes there. Chiang Mai is amazing. It's beautiful, has a huge expat community, the people are much friendlier than Bangkok and the food is amazing. It's really easy for foreigners to live/work from there. Phuket wasn't my favorite, but I only stayed in the town, which doesn't have much of a reputation. Koh Lanta was pretty, but the beaches weren't particularly picturesque. I spent some time working at a coworking facility (Kohub) which I can't recommend highly enough. It's a little dead in Green Season, but not too bad. Koh Phi Phi is a lot more picturesque, but it's a party island and I didn't get a decent night's sleep in my time there. It's kinda like Vegas in that it's great for about 36 hours and then starts to get old pretty quickly. Koh Samui and Koh Phangan were really pretty but also really touristy. I'm not sure I would opt for an extended stay in either. Koh Tao is a diving island with mediocre diving, so there's not much point going there if you're not learning to dive in some capacity. But it's a great place to get an Open Water or Rescue Diver certification. If I were working a remote job while in Thailand, I'd probably choose either Chiang Mai or Koh Lanta to start. But it's easy enough to move around, so unless you've got kids, there's no reason to settle on just one place.
objclxt 9y ago
> I'm considering setting up as an Estonian e-resident soon though (https://e-estonia.com/solutions/e-identity/e-residency/ https://e-estonia.com/solutions/e-identity/e-residency/) to change where I pay my taxes. Talk to a solicitor before you do this unless you want HMRC to come a knocking. Estonian eResidency is not actual residency, and it won't change the country you're resident in for personal tax purposes. You could set up a company in Estonia, but if you're an independent contractor and all the profits from that company flow directly back to you HMRC may again have questions (and you'll still have to pay taxes on the dividends you receive at the UK rates).
- TomMarius 9y ago
  The way its done here in Europe (don't know about USA) is to have most of your spending billed to the company as an expense. You take very little to no money out of the company.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- blakenomad 9y ago
  Yep I understand that. The idea with e-residency is you cover your business expenses pretty much exclusively the company card you acquire when you establish your company in Estonia. This covers travel and accommodation primarily. Everything else I must pay tax on as usual though HMRC. Any cash I want in my UK bank account for example is tax-deductable.

koliber 9y ago

With many of these things, the answer is "it depends". If you are interested in specific advice, please name the country where you are a citizen, where you are a resident, and where you are traveling, for how long, and on what type visa.

itake 9y ago

American digital nomad (not an accountant) here that transitioned an on-site w2 job in SF to full remote. state taxes: I initially moved to FL where there is no state income tax. I have a FL driver's license and mailing address. In FL, you do not have to file anything. federal taxes: I will qualify for FEIE [0] by being outside of the USA for the qualifying amount of time which basically means I do not have to pay federal income tax on my first ~$105k, but I still need to pay FICA. In theory, most countries that I visit, I probably should be paying their taxes, but since my money only stays in America, the risk of getting caught is very low. It is my understanding that there are things that can be done to get your taxes down to 0% if I was a contractor, but I don't make enough for me to take advantage of that. [0] https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-earned-income-exclusion https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/fore...

kbutler 9y ago
I was intrigued by the "Foreign Earned Income Exclusion". From that link https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-earned-income-exclusion https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/fore...: 2. Is your tax home* in a foreign country? ... b. No. You CANNOT claim the foreign earned income exclusion, the foreign housing exclusion, or the foreign housing deduction. * Tax home: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-earned-income-exclusion-tax-home-in-foreign-country https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/fore... "Your tax home is the general area of your main place of business, employment, or post of duty, regardless of where you maintain your family home. ... You are not considered to have a tax home in a foreign country for any period in which your abode is in the United States." The separate "physical presence outside the US for 330 days/year" is a later criterion, and is not relevant if your "tax home" is in the US.

jorgemf 9y ago

It depends of they laws of the country where you stay. For example, my country requires me to pay taxes if I live there for more than 6 months a year (180 days). And theoretically you pay taxes where you live at that moment, but if you only stay for a month and them move to another then it is complicated, most people justify that they are on holidays there and pay taxes in their "usual" living country. I think most countries doesn't have laws to regulate this type of things.

EduardoBautista 9y ago

Countries usually specify at what point you owe them money. You can live in Tijuana, Mexico and commute to San Diego, California every day and won't owe anything to the IRS (as long as you are not a citizen or permanent resident). Now, getting your employer to pay you without withholding US taxes is another story, not many employers have experience with this. Not sure if you are supposed to file for a tax return at the end of the year but you still would owe the Mexican government taxes.

kbutler 9y ago
This appears to be false: "Your tax home is the general area of your main place of business, employment, or post of duty, regardless of where you maintain your family home. " https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-earned-income-exclusion-tax-home-in-foreign-country https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/fore...