4 ms·

> Anti-trans A quick (and biased) search turns up: "His employers have warned that, while they support his right to academic freedom and free speech, he could

> Anti-trans A quick (and biased) search turns up: "His employers have warned that, while they support his right to academic freedom and free speech, he could run afoul of the Ontario Human Rights code and his faculty responsibilities should he refuse to use alternative pronouns when requested." Now I'm sure there's more to the issue, but that's kind of my point - increasingly, not ceding to every demand by group X is labelled as being 'anti-X', and ending any discussion.

gasof 9y ago
I'm not sure what's wrong with the above statement? I see merit in his view that the state should not force anyone to use any particular words, and I think it is not clear at all whether one should be able to force other people to act as if they are a gender different from how they are perceived, or to force others to use specific words to speak to them, although I personally think we'll end up at "don't use force". Peterson's position on the pronouns thing (which is an oddly hot-debated issue, perhaps because it'd open the doors to more compelled speech) is that if you would ask him to use special pronouns whether he would use them would depend on his estimation of your intentions; this seems very reasonable to me, and I could also understand it if he refused altogether because he is a public figure, a free-speech advocate and a professor with tenure, and if he can't who else is going to feel like they can? It's also non-obvious to me whether the net effect of accepting transgenderism and promoting non-binary gender roles is positive. GP stated their opinion, I did too, no need for off-topic discussions. Edit: I just spotted 'JBP is antisemitic', that's just slanderous. JBP is in no way anti-semitic, citation very much needed.
zimpenfish 9y ago
> At the event, Peterson outlined his criticism of transgender people, arguing that the idea that biological sex and gender were independent quantities was “wrong.” No, he's actually anti-trans too. http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2017/4/11/peterson-talk-draws-criticism/ http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2017/4/11/peterson-talk-dr...
- beaconstudios 9y ago
  the article doesn't back up your claim with evidence at all.
- DarkKomunalec 9y ago
  You're proving my point - both disagreeing with the idea that sex and gender are independent, and hating and assaulting trans people, get thrown in the same 'anti-trans' bucket. Wouldn't it be more fair, even necessary, to just say "he doesn't want pronoun choice to be enforced, and doesn't think biological sex and gender are distinct"? Why distort his views by condensing them to 'anti-trans'?
  - zimpenfish 9y ago
    > he doesn't want pronoun choice to be enforced That just makes him a dickhead that should be ignored. > doesn't think biological sex and gender are distinct Which makes him wrong, scientifically (his testimony to the Canadian Senate has him saying that because the vast majority of people express their biological* sex as their gender, it would violate causality to accept they weren't linked), and, because he keeps using this nonsense to push his "trans people are just SJW leftists trying to take control" rhetoric, that makes him anti-trans. For more about the spectrum of biological sex (way more than 2) and the expressed biological genders that can result (more than 2, not necessarily matching the biological sex) - http://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943 http://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943

gasof 9y ago

I'm not sure what's wrong with the above statement? I see merit in his view that the state should not force anyone to use any particular words, and I think it is not clear at all whether one should be able to force other people to act as if they are a gender different from how they are perceived, or to force others to use specific words to speak to them, although I personally think we'll end up at "don't use force". Peterson's position on the pronouns thing (which is an oddly hot-debated issue, perhaps because it'd open the doors to more compelled speech) is that if you would ask him to use special pronouns whether he would use them would depend on his estimation of your intentions; this seems very reasonable to me, and I could also understand it if he refused altogether because he is a public figure, a free-speech advocate and a professor with tenure, and if he can't who else is going to feel like they can? It's also non-obvious to me whether the net effect of accepting transgenderism and promoting non-binary gender roles is positive. GP stated their opinion, I did too, no need for off-topic discussions. Edit: I just spotted 'JBP is antisemitic', that's just slanderous. JBP is in no way anti-semitic, citation very much needed.

zimpenfish 9y ago

> At the event, Peterson outlined his criticism of transgender people, arguing that the idea that biological sex and gender were independent quantities was “wrong.” No, he's actually anti-trans too. http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2017/4/11/peterson-talk-draws-criticism/ http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2017/4/11/peterson-talk-dr...

beaconstudios 9y ago
the article doesn't back up your claim with evidence at all.
DarkKomunalec 9y ago
You're proving my point - both disagreeing with the idea that sex and gender are independent, and hating and assaulting trans people, get thrown in the same 'anti-trans' bucket. Wouldn't it be more fair, even necessary, to just say "he doesn't want pronoun choice to be enforced, and doesn't think biological sex and gender are distinct"? Why distort his views by condensing them to 'anti-trans'?
- zimpenfish 9y ago
  > he doesn't want pronoun choice to be enforced That just makes him a dickhead that should be ignored. > doesn't think biological sex and gender are distinct Which makes him wrong, scientifically (his testimony to the Canadian Senate has him saying that because the vast majority of people express their biological* sex as their gender, it would violate causality to accept they weren't linked), and, because he keeps using this nonsense to push his "trans people are just SJW leftists trying to take control" rhetoric, that makes him anti-trans. For more about the spectrum of biological sex (way more than 2) and the expressed biological genders that can result (more than 2, not necessarily matching the biological sex) - http://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943 http://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943