3 ms·

Are you questioning whether it's important to argue, or whether it's important to win?

by aston 19y ago

wallflower 19y ago
I was hanging out the other day at a mixer and the subject of travel came up. There were some well-traveled people but it evolved into a pissing contest, their travel resume vs. the other person's. It seemed almost they were trying to one-up the other even when talking about their personal experiences (e.g. Punta Cana is alright for scuba. But. Have you been to Dominica? No? Well let me tell you...) Reading this YC thread, I was reminded of observing this party talk/jousting and had the deep thought that if we hold an agenda (e.g. He's wrong or I'm better than that guy) we lose out when it comes down to it - we don't really listen or learn anything from the other person because we're too focused on proving the muzak in our head that we're right
- xlnt 19y ago
  if one side "wins" an argument that means the losing side gets ruled out. thus you both win in the search for the truth, because you've discovered that a particular position is false.
  - wallflower 19y ago
    "The truth isn't always beauty, but the hunger for it is." Nadine Gordimer, Nobel Prize laureate
ericb 19y ago
I can't say for sure what he's referring to, but maybe it's Dale Carnegie's philosophy that you can never "win" an argument because even when you "win" an argument, you haven't usually accomplished your objective of persuading the person. I looked for an excerpt and didn't see one. There's a small summary here, but the book says it best: http://www.carsonified.com/biz-tips/how-to-win-an-argument http://www.carsonified.com/biz-tips/how-to-win-an-argument On a personal level, a relative of mine has alienated enough people that I have trouble bringing him out because he continually needs to be "right." What good have you accomplished if you're "right", alone, and you've convinced no one. The dynamic is different in a public debate, however, where you might be trying to persuade people other than the person you're debating, but Mr. Carnegie's ideas are still useful to remember.

Are you questioning whether it's important to argue, or whether it's important to win?

by aston 19y ago

Are you questioning whether it's important to argue, or whether it's important to win?

I was hanging out the other day at a mixer and the subject of travel came up. There were some well-traveled people but it evolved into a pissing contest, their travel resume vs. the other person's. It seemed almost they were trying to one-up the other even when talking about their personal experiences (e.g. Punta Cana is alright for scuba. But. Have you been to Dominica? No? Well let me tell you...) Reading this YC thread, I was reminded of observing this party talk/jousting and had the deep thought that if we hold an agenda (e.g. He's wrong or I'm better than that guy) we lose out when it comes down to it - we don't really listen or learn anything from the other person because we're too focused on proving the muzak in our head that we're right

xlnt 19y ago
if one side "wins" an argument that means the losing side gets ruled out. thus you both win in the search for the truth, because you've discovered that a particular position is false.
- wallflower 19y ago
  "The truth isn't always beauty, but the hunger for it is." Nadine Gordimer, Nobel Prize laureate

ericb 19y ago

I can't say for sure what he's referring to, but maybe it's Dale Carnegie's philosophy that you can never "win" an argument because even when you "win" an argument, you haven't usually accomplished your objective of persuading the person. I looked for an excerpt and didn't see one. There's a small summary here, but the book says it best: http://www.carsonified.com/biz-tips/how-to-win-an-argument http://www.carsonified.com/biz-tips/how-to-win-an-argument On a personal level, a relative of mine has alienated enough people that I have trouble bringing him out because he continually needs to be "right." What good have you accomplished if you're "right", alone, and you've convinced no one. The dynamic is different in a public debate, however, where you might be trying to persuade people other than the person you're debating, but Mr. Carnegie's ideas are still useful to remember.