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I feel like this is an unfair criticism unless you know what the page is doing. People are building entire vector editing programs on the web. How can you be f

by rtpg 9y ago

I feel like this is an unfair criticism unless you know what the page is doing. People are building entire vector editing programs on the web. How can you be fine with Photoshop being several hundred megs but not with this person having less than 10 megs of code to achieve something similar? The web isn't just Hacker News and CNN. People write real programs on it. Obviously shipping less code is Good(TM). But isn't an across the board improvement also good?

chroem- 9y ago
>People are building entire vector editing programs on the web. This is the exception rather than the rule. There is no reason why it should take more than ten seconds to load a static news article with text.
- spoiler 9y ago
  In which you—and the original starter of this comment thread—completely missed the point. The linked page clearly uses complex applications as examples. Whatever anyone's opinion of them are, they are quite complex. This proposal is aimed at web applications, not a simple website with image/text content, and minimal javascript.
  - mirko22 9y ago
    Yet Google Sheets and Gmail are applications, Facebook and LinkedIn are websites which might as well be fully static and are twice the size so his point is kinda correct. Mind you, Gmail also has features like Chat as do Facebook and LinkedIn.
    - djeric3 9y ago
      Facebook.com does a lot more than show a newsfeed, profiles, and notifications. - It contains a fully-fledged messenger application that supports payments, videoconferencing, sharing rich media etc - The newsfeed supports interactive 360-degree video, a live video player, mini-games in the newsfeed, and lots of other rich/interactive media - It's a gaming platform for 3rd party games - It's a discussion forum, groups management system, event planning UI - Photo sharing and editing platform, as well as live video streaming tool - A platform for businesses to have an online presence (Pages) - A peer-to-peer online marketplace (called "Marketplace") And a dozen other things I can't think of right now. You might say "but I don't use all of those things". That's another tricky part, the fact that every user has a different "configuration" and different types of content in their newsfeed at any given moment, requiring them to be served different sets of JavaScript code.
      - codedokode 9y ago
        Most of these features are unnecessary until the user tries to play a video, a game, opens a dialog etc.
        djeric3 9y ago
        Right, and that's what happens today, the JS for the secondary functionality is loaded on demand. Here's what I have in my FB homepage during a random load: - Search bar for searching people/groups/posts/pages - News ticker - Friend requests, Notifications - Sidebar ads - A rich text editor for sharing my status - A newsfeed story with a special "memory - 3years ago" feature - Comments & commenting UI under newsfeed stories - Suggestions for "People You May know" - A video auto-playing a clip from a friend, with capability to auto-select between tracks of different video quality based on bandwidth (including bandwidth estimator code) - And probably a dozen different A/B experiments that I'm a part of It takes a lot of code just to render all these UI elements. If I interact with any of them, additional code is loaded (you can see this in the Network monitor). This homescreen UI is as rich as any desktop application and requires no less code to render. The problem being addressed in this proposal is that a native version of this app would start a lot faster than the web version. And that's because a browser will parse all the code files loaded on startup in an app (inefficiently, by necessity), but a native app will only read the code for the code paths that are actually executed. Basically, O(code executed) is a lot better than O(all files containing code that is executed). And this proposal features a more parser-friendly encoding and change to the parsing semantics.
- lewisl9029 9y ago
  I think the point was, the premise of the OP's original "solution" was a sweeping generalization that doesn't apply to non-trivial web _apps_ that have a large amount of inherent complexity, which is then necessarily reflected in the size of their codebases. This proposal aims to provide a real solution to tackle problem.
- codedokode 9y ago
  That should take less than one second, not ten.
seanwasere 9y ago
fb et al are creatively siphoning up your data, it's legal for them to do it of course

by rtpg 9y ago

chroem- 9y ago

>People are building entire vector editing programs on the web. This is the exception rather than the rule. There is no reason why it should take more than ten seconds to load a static news article with text.

spoiler 9y ago
In which you—and the original starter of this comment thread—completely missed the point. The linked page clearly uses complex applications as examples. Whatever anyone's opinion of them are, they are quite complex. This proposal is aimed at web applications, not a simple website with image/text content, and minimal javascript.
- mirko22 9y ago
  Yet Google Sheets and Gmail are applications, Facebook and LinkedIn are websites which might as well be fully static and are twice the size so his point is kinda correct. Mind you, Gmail also has features like Chat as do Facebook and LinkedIn.
  - djeric3 9y ago
    Facebook.com does a lot more than show a newsfeed, profiles, and notifications. - It contains a fully-fledged messenger application that supports payments, videoconferencing, sharing rich media etc - The newsfeed supports interactive 360-degree video, a live video player, mini-games in the newsfeed, and lots of other rich/interactive media - It's a gaming platform for 3rd party games - It's a discussion forum, groups management system, event planning UI - Photo sharing and editing platform, as well as live video streaming tool - A platform for businesses to have an online presence (Pages) - A peer-to-peer online marketplace (called "Marketplace") And a dozen other things I can't think of right now. You might say "but I don't use all of those things". That's another tricky part, the fact that every user has a different "configuration" and different types of content in their newsfeed at any given moment, requiring them to be served different sets of JavaScript code.
    - codedokode 9y ago
      Most of these features are unnecessary until the user tries to play a video, a game, opens a dialog etc.
      - djeric3 9y ago
        Right, and that's what happens today, the JS for the secondary functionality is loaded on demand. Here's what I have in my FB homepage during a random load: - Search bar for searching people/groups/posts/pages - News ticker - Friend requests, Notifications - Sidebar ads - A rich text editor for sharing my status - A newsfeed story with a special "memory - 3years ago" feature - Comments & commenting UI under newsfeed stories - Suggestions for "People You May know" - A video auto-playing a clip from a friend, with capability to auto-select between tracks of different video quality based on bandwidth (including bandwidth estimator code) - And probably a dozen different A/B experiments that I'm a part of It takes a lot of code just to render all these UI elements. If I interact with any of them, additional code is loaded (you can see this in the Network monitor). This homescreen UI is as rich as any desktop application and requires no less code to render. The problem being addressed in this proposal is that a native version of this app would start a lot faster than the web version. And that's because a browser will parse all the code files loaded on startup in an app (inefficiently, by necessity), but a native app will only read the code for the code paths that are actually executed. Basically, O(code executed) is a lot better than O(all files containing code that is executed). And this proposal features a more parser-friendly encoding and change to the parsing semantics.
lewisl9029 9y ago
I think the point was, the premise of the OP's original "solution" was a sweeping generalization that doesn't apply to non-trivial web _apps_ that have a large amount of inherent complexity, which is then necessarily reflected in the size of their codebases. This proposal aims to provide a real solution to tackle problem.
codedokode 9y ago
That should take less than one second, not ten.

seanwasere 9y ago

fb et al are creatively siphoning up your data, it's legal for them to do it of course