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I love how highly, highly processed foods are suddenly A-OK to many people here once it's a fake meat product. >But high-temperature processing has the unfortu

I love how highly, highly processed foods are suddenly A-OK to many people here once it's a fake meat product. >But high-temperature processing has the unfortunate side effect of so denaturing the other proteins in soy that they are rendered largely ineffective.23 That's why animals on soy feed need lysine supplements for normal growth. >Nitrites, which are potent carcinogens, are formed during spray-drying, and a toxin called lysinoalanine is formed during alkaline processing.24 Numerous artificial flavorings, particularly MSG, are added to soy protein isolate and textured vegetable protein products to mask their strong "beany" taste and to impart the flavor of meat.25 >In feeding experiments, the use of SPI increased requirements for vitamins E, K, D, and B12 and created deficiency symptoms of calcium, magnesium, manganese, molybdenum, copper, iron, and zinc.26 Phytic acid remaining in these soy products greatly inhibits zinc and iron absorption; test animals fed SPI develop enlarged organs, particularly the pancreas and thyroid gland, and increased deposition of fatty acids in the liver.27 http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/avoid_soy.htm http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/avoid_soy.htm I shouldn't even have to post about "Textured Wheat Protein" but it's essentially another denatured protein, one that is completely doused in glyphosate right before harvest.. Check out the chart on page two... http://people.csail.mit.edu/seneff/ITX_2013_06_04_Seneff.pdf http://people.csail.mit.edu/seneff/ITX_2013_06_04_Seneff.pdf These "vegan" foods are nowhere near healthy.

empath75 9y ago
Yeah, I'd love lab grown meat, but I wouldn't eat this. It looks terrible for you.
chipotle_coyote 9y ago
There's no gentle way to make the complaint about I'm about to: going to Mercola.com for good health science is roughly equivalent to referring to the Flat Earth Society for good GPS algorithms. Joe Mercola has developed a multimillion dollar business which is essentially built on telling his audience that everything in the world is poisonous unless he sells it to them. When I say he's one of the folks who believe that fluoridation is a nefarious government conspiracy, I am not kidding. He also believes coffee enemas will fight cancer. Again, I am not making this up. There's conflicting evidence about soy's health benefits, which is a sentence that is, generally speaking, just as true after a "s/soy/any_damn_food" operation. Nitrites are highly toxic in quantity, but in small quantity, they've been used in food processing since the Middle Ages. It's what you cure meat with. Most of the nitrites in your diet, though, are naturally occurring. And while no one claims MSG has massive health benefits, it's been extremely well established that it's harmless. It's just a salt. I'm sure Doc Mercola will tell me the decades of tests that show it's safe are simply a sign that every first world health agency is in the pocket of Big Umami, but y'know, color me skeptical.
- Danihan 9y ago
  The Mercola article has citations, which you ignored. There is also a link to a MIT paper which you ignored, and deals with the main ingredient in the product at hand. >When I say he's one of the folks who believe that fluoridation is a nefarious government conspiracy, I am not kidding. Fluoride lowers IQ in children an average of 15 points, per Harvard meta-analysis. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/fluoride-childrens-health-grandjean-choi/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/fluoride-children... >researchers from Harvard School of Public Health (HSPH) and China Medical University in Shenyang for the first time combined 27 studies and found strong indications that fluoride may adversely affect cognitive development in children. So... what exactly is he wrong about when it comes to fluoride? You are blinded by your bias against this one Doctor, enough to miss the main points regarding why these foods are total shit.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > Fluoride lowers IQ in children an average of 15 points, per Harvard meta-analysis. No. Aside from the fact that meta-analyses are primarily a means of identifying areas for direct research because they have a strong tendency to magnify publication bias (among other problems), that's not what the cited piece concludes. Your own quote shows that the conclusion is much weaker, noting that the meta-analysis “found strong indications that fluoride may adversely affect cognitive development in children.” Finding strong indications that it has a possibility (“may” ≠ “does”) of causing some adverse reaction is not the same as concluding that it does have any adverse impact, and even farther from any particular quantification of that impact. And the actual average result (which isn't a study conclusion on the actual impact) was 7, not 15 IQ points for “high flouride content”; to quote your source: “The average loss in IQ was reported as a standardized weighted mean difference of 0.45, which would be approximately equivalent to seven IQ points for commonly used IQ scores with a standard deviation of 15.”
    - Danihan 9y ago
      You're right, it's 7 points. However, that means there are still considerable issues (both medical and ethical) with the mass-ingesting of fluoride, which lends more credibility to Mercola's paranoia than your skepticism, in my opinion. And regardless of that, you are still ignoring all the main issues brought up with TVP.
PerfectElement 9y ago
I love how the anti-vaxer Mercola keeps being referenced here on HN every time someone wants to make a case against veganism. In fact, every single anti-vegan blog out there links to the same Mercola articles.

empath75 9y ago

Yeah, I'd love lab grown meat, but I wouldn't eat this. It looks terrible for you.

chipotle_coyote 9y ago

There's no gentle way to make the complaint about I'm about to: going to Mercola.com for good health science is roughly equivalent to referring to the Flat Earth Society for good GPS algorithms. Joe Mercola has developed a multimillion dollar business which is essentially built on telling his audience that everything in the world is poisonous unless he sells it to them. When I say he's one of the folks who believe that fluoridation is a nefarious government conspiracy, I am not kidding. He also believes coffee enemas will fight cancer. Again, I am not making this up. There's conflicting evidence about soy's health benefits, which is a sentence that is, generally speaking, just as true after a "s/soy/any_damn_food" operation. Nitrites are highly toxic in quantity, but in small quantity, they've been used in food processing since the Middle Ages. It's what you cure meat with. Most of the nitrites in your diet, though, are naturally occurring. And while no one claims MSG has massive health benefits, it's been extremely well established that it's harmless. It's just a salt. I'm sure Doc Mercola will tell me the decades of tests that show it's safe are simply a sign that every first world health agency is in the pocket of Big Umami, but y'know, color me skeptical.

Danihan 9y ago
The Mercola article has citations, which you ignored. There is also a link to a MIT paper which you ignored, and deals with the main ingredient in the product at hand. >When I say he's one of the folks who believe that fluoridation is a nefarious government conspiracy, I am not kidding. Fluoride lowers IQ in children an average of 15 points, per Harvard meta-analysis. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/fluoride-childrens-health-grandjean-choi/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/fluoride-children... >researchers from Harvard School of Public Health (HSPH) and China Medical University in Shenyang for the first time combined 27 studies and found strong indications that fluoride may adversely affect cognitive development in children. So... what exactly is he wrong about when it comes to fluoride? You are blinded by your bias against this one Doctor, enough to miss the main points regarding why these foods are total shit.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Fluoride lowers IQ in children an average of 15 points, per Harvard meta-analysis. No. Aside from the fact that meta-analyses are primarily a means of identifying areas for direct research because they have a strong tendency to magnify publication bias (among other problems), that's not what the cited piece concludes. Your own quote shows that the conclusion is much weaker, noting that the meta-analysis “found strong indications that fluoride may adversely affect cognitive development in children.” Finding strong indications that it has a possibility (“may” ≠ “does”) of causing some adverse reaction is not the same as concluding that it does have any adverse impact, and even farther from any particular quantification of that impact. And the actual average result (which isn't a study conclusion on the actual impact) was 7, not 15 IQ points for “high flouride content”; to quote your source: “The average loss in IQ was reported as a standardized weighted mean difference of 0.45, which would be approximately equivalent to seven IQ points for commonly used IQ scores with a standard deviation of 15.”
  - Danihan 9y ago
    You're right, it's 7 points. However, that means there are still considerable issues (both medical and ethical) with the mass-ingesting of fluoride, which lends more credibility to Mercola's paranoia than your skepticism, in my opinion. And regardless of that, you are still ignoring all the main issues brought up with TVP.

PerfectElement 9y ago

I love how the anti-vaxer Mercola keeps being referenced here on HN every time someone wants to make a case against veganism. In fact, every single anti-vegan blog out there links to the same Mercola articles.