4 ms·

“When people search for sensitive keywords on YouTube, they will be redirected towards a playlist of curated YouTube videos that directly confront and debunk vi

“When people search for sensitive keywords on YouTube, they will be redirected towards a playlist of curated YouTube videos that directly confront and debunk violent extremist messages.” How much you wanna bet that “feature” is going to be used to alter/redirect the video results for other things like political opinions that Google doesn’t approve of? I foresee the right wing extremists like Breitbart and InfoWars getting affected by this. Not that I like either of those, but I think this is going to be a super sneaky way to curate the feeds that people see and the videos that are searchable online. Twitter did something recently that was very similar to this and people were finding that their followers weren't seeing their tweets.

lstamour 9y ago
I'd take that bet. There's a big difference between Google and YouTube, look at how they each handle copyright. YouTube pulls things, but Google links to DMCA takedowns. And extremist content should be harder to find, regardless of source. There's a big difference between extremist content and less violent political discourse, though. And YouTube as a hosting platform vs. hosting your video elsewhere. That all said, the Google OneBox is already an example of altering search results to display what Google thinks you meant based on potentially slanted sources on the Internet.
- Duwensatzaj 9y ago
  You'd lose the bet - it's already happening. https://qz.com/666871/german-viewers-of-immigrant-hating-youtube-videos-must-first-watch-ads-with-real-refugee-stories/ https://qz.com/666871/german-viewers-of-immigrant-hating-you...
  - b_ttercup 9y ago
    This seems to describe a group which bought ad space. That's not google's doing.
yalue 9y ago
I would say that this is the only use for this particular feature, because actual calls to violence and extremist messages are already against the rules on youtube and can simply be reported by users. Like you, I also find the Alex Jones and his ilk to be disturbing and harmful, and consider it a bad sign that people like you and me need to qualify any statement against censorship by explicitly saying we aren't part of the American far right.
- gasof 9y ago
  Is Alex Jones actually far right, or is that just how the media labels everyone who holds non-PC? I checked his Wikipedia page, for the "alt right" claim they have two sources, a New York Times article that quotes the SPLC describing the term "globalism" as a "far right dogwhistle"; this feels disingenuous to me, like they are blackballing everyone who doesn't agree to their particular politics. I'm very put off by how the article calls everyone who is against globalism (which seems to mostly mean "some parts of neoliberalism"?) racist and anti-semetic. I'm also annoyed that the "source" is the NYT, and the proof is just the NYT just calling him "far-right" once (there's no explanation of why he would be this). The second source, a different NYT article offered little more substance on why this would be the case. Perhaps because he is strongly against the Clinton's? I haven't ever got the impression he's far right (and especially not the anti-semitic/racist connotation), he just seems to be an odd crossing between a conservative, conspiracy theorist, a researcher and a used car salesman.
aptidude187 9y ago
Interesting thought. I agree, this kind of reasoning seems to be the flip side of the same coin. Meaning every opinion that differs from the 'mainstream' or even from what mighty Google considers to be morally or ethically wrong can be just cleverly labeled in a manner that allows them to redirect an individual to what Google thinks is right. 'Follow our politics and our opinions' - And who would be able to control if Google is abiding by the rules, when there are like billions of such difficult decisions to be made on a daily basis?
Duwensatzaj 9y ago
That already happened in Germany - https://qz.com/666871/german-viewers-of-immigrant-hating-youtube-videos-must-first-watch-ads-with-real-refugee-stories/ https://qz.com/666871/german-viewers-of-immigrant-hating-you... "To target immigrant-hating videos, the room-sharing service uses keywords on YouTube’s ad platform that are associated with far-right content and anti-immigration groups, such as Pegida, Germany’s anti-Islamist group, and its leader Lutz Bachmann. Other keywords include “refugees out” (“asylanten raus”), “refugees terrorists,” and “the truth about refugees.” A German can’t watch a anti-immigrant YouTube video associated with a keyword without first seeing a 30-second preroll ad from Refugees Welcome."
- tehwebguy 9y ago
  No, it didn't. Some org is just paying for ads. If you want to make an Immigrants Not Welcome ad and pay for it to appear before videos with terms you choose you are free to do so.
flukus 9y ago
After the right wing extremists are forced onto their own platforms, how much do you want to bet that their newfound bubble will make them much more extreme and much less likely to see something like a debunking video? It just plays into the persecution complex.
- tnone 9y ago
  Slate star codex highlighted this dynamic very well here: http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/05/01/neutral-vs-conservative-the-eternal-struggle/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/05/01/neutral-vs-conservative... "Neutral" is no longer neutral, and if you keep telling people they are bigots undeservedly, they will leave and set up their own media, with blackjack and hookers, creating real extremism.

lstamour 9y ago

I'd take that bet. There's a big difference between Google and YouTube, look at how they each handle copyright. YouTube pulls things, but Google links to DMCA takedowns. And extremist content should be harder to find, regardless of source. There's a big difference between extremist content and less violent political discourse, though. And YouTube as a hosting platform vs. hosting your video elsewhere. That all said, the Google OneBox is already an example of altering search results to display what Google thinks you meant based on potentially slanted sources on the Internet.

Duwensatzaj 9y ago
You'd lose the bet - it's already happening. https://qz.com/666871/german-viewers-of-immigrant-hating-youtube-videos-must-first-watch-ads-with-real-refugee-stories/ https://qz.com/666871/german-viewers-of-immigrant-hating-you...
- b_ttercup 9y ago
  This seems to describe a group which bought ad space. That's not google's doing.

yalue 9y ago

I would say that this is the only use for this particular feature, because actual calls to violence and extremist messages are already against the rules on youtube and can simply be reported by users. Like you, I also find the Alex Jones and his ilk to be disturbing and harmful, and consider it a bad sign that people like you and me need to qualify any statement against censorship by explicitly saying we aren't part of the American far right.

gasof 9y ago
Is Alex Jones actually far right, or is that just how the media labels everyone who holds non-PC? I checked his Wikipedia page, for the "alt right" claim they have two sources, a New York Times article that quotes the SPLC describing the term "globalism" as a "far right dogwhistle"; this feels disingenuous to me, like they are blackballing everyone who doesn't agree to their particular politics. I'm very put off by how the article calls everyone who is against globalism (which seems to mostly mean "some parts of neoliberalism"?) racist and anti-semetic. I'm also annoyed that the "source" is the NYT, and the proof is just the NYT just calling him "far-right" once (there's no explanation of why he would be this). The second source, a different NYT article offered little more substance on why this would be the case. Perhaps because he is strongly against the Clinton's? I haven't ever got the impression he's far right (and especially not the anti-semitic/racist connotation), he just seems to be an odd crossing between a conservative, conspiracy theorist, a researcher and a used car salesman.

aptidude187 9y ago

Interesting thought. I agree, this kind of reasoning seems to be the flip side of the same coin. Meaning every opinion that differs from the 'mainstream' or even from what mighty Google considers to be morally or ethically wrong can be just cleverly labeled in a manner that allows them to redirect an individual to what Google thinks is right. 'Follow our politics and our opinions' - And who would be able to control if Google is abiding by the rules, when there are like billions of such difficult decisions to be made on a daily basis?

Duwensatzaj 9y ago

That already happened in Germany - https://qz.com/666871/german-viewers-of-immigrant-hating-youtube-videos-must-first-watch-ads-with-real-refugee-stories/ https://qz.com/666871/german-viewers-of-immigrant-hating-you... "To target immigrant-hating videos, the room-sharing service uses keywords on YouTube’s ad platform that are associated with far-right content and anti-immigration groups, such as Pegida, Germany’s anti-Islamist group, and its leader Lutz Bachmann. Other keywords include “refugees out” (“asylanten raus”), “refugees terrorists,” and “the truth about refugees.” A German can’t watch a anti-immigrant YouTube video associated with a keyword without first seeing a 30-second preroll ad from Refugees Welcome."

tehwebguy 9y ago
No, it didn't. Some org is just paying for ads. If you want to make an Immigrants Not Welcome ad and pay for it to appear before videos with terms you choose you are free to do so.

flukus 9y ago

After the right wing extremists are forced onto their own platforms, how much do you want to bet that their newfound bubble will make them much more extreme and much less likely to see something like a debunking video? It just plays into the persecution complex.

tnone 9y ago
Slate star codex highlighted this dynamic very well here: http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/05/01/neutral-vs-conservative-the-eternal-struggle/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/05/01/neutral-vs-conservative... "Neutral" is no longer neutral, and if you keep telling people they are bigots undeservedly, they will leave and set up their own media, with blackjack and hookers, creating real extremism.