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Not really - there's a reason why the Android phones that have tap to wake require two taps in quick succession, or similar. It's very difficult to accidentally

by untog 9y ago

Not really - there's a reason why the Android phones that have tap to wake require two taps in quick succession, or similar. It's very difficult to accidentally trigger it. The facial recognition stuff seems odd to me, in the sense that I can't really figure out what it would be used for (aside from a silly smile detector in the camera app), but hopefully it'll be locked behind permission prompts (or barely accessible at all) in third party apps.

Eric_WVGG 9y ago
It's to replace (or supplement) TouchID. Probably also useful for AR stuff down the road. I was skeptical, but I have a friend who has a similar thing running on his Windows box and it works surprisingly well.
- michaelbrooks 9y ago
  I'm using a Lumia 950 with retina scanner and it works really well. Just as well as the Galaxy S7's fingerprint scanner.
ioulian 9y ago
I once read something about games or ads using facial recognition to get a better feedback about how their game/ad is performing. (I think it was Kinect). Developers can then check what levels are fun to play, and what are a chore. That way they can optimize their future games, or even change the level architecture based on the emotional level of the player. I think you can apply this strategy to ads too, to learn what kind of ad an user likes or dislikes, so they can target the ads a little bit better/easier.
- untog 9y ago
  > I think you can apply this strategy to ads too, to learn what kind of ad an user likes or dislikes, so they can target the ads a little bit better/easier. Which is exactly why I will refuse to give any facial recognition data to third party apps.
  - abhi3 9y ago
    Why? If you are going to be seeing ads anyway, might as well see better targeted and useful ads that make your face cheer up. Don't get all the cynicism.
    - untog 9y ago
      There has been plenty written about the creepiness of personal information intrusion in today's society, so I won't recap it here. But facial gestures in iOS worry me for two reasons: 1. People will give permission for it without realising their personal information, preferences and data will be collected, aggregated and used to build an overall profile of them as a person, to find the most effective way of convincing them to buy things. Much like the old flashlight apps that curiously required location permissions, it'll be permission creep all over again. 2. Facial gestures are involuntary. You don't explicitly give permission for the fact that X made you smile and Y made you frown because it'll happen before you're even consciously aware that you've done it. Why do you think ad providers will optimise for things that make me happy? Why not optimise for things that make me worried, and more likely to purchase the answer whatever "problem" they are putting in front of me?
    - mikeash 9y ago
      They're not going to optimize for what makes me happy, they're going to optimize for what makes me spend. There's a strong chance these are not the same things.
    - jasonkostempski 9y ago
      Would you mind having a person following you around 24/7, examining everything you do? It would "improve" advertising significantly.
- throwaway2048 9y ago
  Oh the games will be optimized, but you can be certain they will be optimized for what the developer wants, not what the user wants. That is, maximized micro transactions and addictive potential.
potatolicious 9y ago
The rumor mill suggests that the face detect is used for authentication, and is there because Apple hasn't been able to get the fingerprint sensor to read through the screen, and they need a quick-unlock feature like TouchID. I hope it works - I rather like TouchID and would be disappointed to have it replaced by something crappier.
- untog 9y ago
  I agree - I think Touch ID is fantastic. It would be a huge shame to lose it in the pursuit of cleaner lines and a better look.
- Shivetya 9y ago
  there were other rumors pointing to the touch id being integrated on the sides of the device and even worse but discredited rumor of it being moved to the back. my concern with any facial recognition replacing what is currently in use is that many times I unlock my phone without having to look at it and rely on that. The old slip it out of my pocket and quick glance to see if I need to address something now
  - potatolicious 9y ago
    I'd be ecstatic actually if they moved it to the back. I use a Pixel as my other phone (for Android dev) and the natural placement of the fingerprint sensor near your index finger is IMO a really nice feature. That said, I don't think it'll ever happen - that placement of the sensor is so much of an Android-ism that I doubt Apple would ever allow themselves to adopt it.
    - williamscales 9y ago
      I have a Pixel and the only downside with the sensor on the back is that if the phone is flat on a surface you have to either pick it up to use the sensor or enter your PIN.
    - badwolf 9y ago
      I've used 3 different phones with the fingerprint sensor on the back (Nexus 6p, LG G6, Pixel) ... Pulling it out of my pocket is fantastic. Trying to quickly glance at something while it's sitting on my desk is fkn annoying.
dschep 9y ago
Anecdotally, this isn't enough to prevent it from triggering in my pocket when I'm a bit sweaty, so I've had to turn that feature off.
johnchristopher 9y ago
> Not really - there's a reason why the Android phones that have tap to wake require two taps in quick succession, or similar. It's very difficult to accidentally trigger it. That's not my experience. When I put the phone in my pocket I have to take care of positionning the back against my body otherwise my skin through the jeans trigger pocket calls.
- untog 9y ago
  I'll believe it. But Apple typically does better than the average Android phone when it comes to hardware sensors, I imagine they'll be able to detect the difference.
- Eupolemos 9y ago
  On the M8 it is done really simple: if it is upside-down, it can't wake from tapping. Super simple and fluent in daily life (once you know it).
  - soylentcola 9y ago
    On the phones I've owned with tap-to-wake, it wasn't a full unlock, just some level of the lock screen being illuminated. With my old Moto X, I could just wave my hand over the phone while it was laying next to me and a minimal version of the lock screen with clock and notifications would show up. On my current phone (Pixel) it does the same with a double tap: clock, notifications, nothing else. The phone doesn't unlock until I use the fingerprint reader or swipe my lock pattern.
jasonkostempski 9y ago
"The facial recognition stuff seems odd to me" Any type of "authentication" wouldn't make sense, that'd be as silly as a finger print scanner. Smile detector might be fun but certainly not worth the privacy trade off. There's only 1 useful feature I can think of and I've yet to see it done: when my head is sideways and the phone is sideways, I'm lying down, don't rotate the frickin' screen. Still not worth the privacy trade off, but people who don't care will be very happy.

by untog 9y ago

Eric_WVGG 9y ago

It's to replace (or supplement) TouchID. Probably also useful for AR stuff down the road. I was skeptical, but I have a friend who has a similar thing running on his Windows box and it works surprisingly well.

michaelbrooks 9y ago
I'm using a Lumia 950 with retina scanner and it works really well. Just as well as the Galaxy S7's fingerprint scanner.

ioulian 9y ago

I once read something about games or ads using facial recognition to get a better feedback about how their game/ad is performing. (I think it was Kinect). Developers can then check what levels are fun to play, and what are a chore. That way they can optimize their future games, or even change the level architecture based on the emotional level of the player. I think you can apply this strategy to ads too, to learn what kind of ad an user likes or dislikes, so they can target the ads a little bit better/easier.

untog 9y ago
> I think you can apply this strategy to ads too, to learn what kind of ad an user likes or dislikes, so they can target the ads a little bit better/easier. Which is exactly why I will refuse to give any facial recognition data to third party apps.
- abhi3 9y ago
  Why? If you are going to be seeing ads anyway, might as well see better targeted and useful ads that make your face cheer up. Don't get all the cynicism.
  - untog 9y ago
    There has been plenty written about the creepiness of personal information intrusion in today's society, so I won't recap it here. But facial gestures in iOS worry me for two reasons: 1. People will give permission for it without realising their personal information, preferences and data will be collected, aggregated and used to build an overall profile of them as a person, to find the most effective way of convincing them to buy things. Much like the old flashlight apps that curiously required location permissions, it'll be permission creep all over again. 2. Facial gestures are involuntary. You don't explicitly give permission for the fact that X made you smile and Y made you frown because it'll happen before you're even consciously aware that you've done it. Why do you think ad providers will optimise for things that make me happy? Why not optimise for things that make me worried, and more likely to purchase the answer whatever "problem" they are putting in front of me?
  - mikeash 9y ago
    They're not going to optimize for what makes me happy, they're going to optimize for what makes me spend. There's a strong chance these are not the same things.
  - jasonkostempski 9y ago
    Would you mind having a person following you around 24/7, examining everything you do? It would "improve" advertising significantly.
throwaway2048 9y ago
Oh the games will be optimized, but you can be certain they will be optimized for what the developer wants, not what the user wants. That is, maximized micro transactions and addictive potential.

potatolicious 9y ago

The rumor mill suggests that the face detect is used for authentication, and is there because Apple hasn't been able to get the fingerprint sensor to read through the screen, and they need a quick-unlock feature like TouchID. I hope it works - I rather like TouchID and would be disappointed to have it replaced by something crappier.

untog 9y ago
I agree - I think Touch ID is fantastic. It would be a huge shame to lose it in the pursuit of cleaner lines and a better look.
Shivetya 9y ago
there were other rumors pointing to the touch id being integrated on the sides of the device and even worse but discredited rumor of it being moved to the back. my concern with any facial recognition replacing what is currently in use is that many times I unlock my phone without having to look at it and rely on that. The old slip it out of my pocket and quick glance to see if I need to address something now
- potatolicious 9y ago
  I'd be ecstatic actually if they moved it to the back. I use a Pixel as my other phone (for Android dev) and the natural placement of the fingerprint sensor near your index finger is IMO a really nice feature. That said, I don't think it'll ever happen - that placement of the sensor is so much of an Android-ism that I doubt Apple would ever allow themselves to adopt it.
  - williamscales 9y ago
    I have a Pixel and the only downside with the sensor on the back is that if the phone is flat on a surface you have to either pick it up to use the sensor or enter your PIN.
  - badwolf 9y ago
    I've used 3 different phones with the fingerprint sensor on the back (Nexus 6p, LG G6, Pixel) ... Pulling it out of my pocket is fantastic. Trying to quickly glance at something while it's sitting on my desk is fkn annoying.

dschep 9y ago

Anecdotally, this isn't enough to prevent it from triggering in my pocket when I'm a bit sweaty, so I've had to turn that feature off.

johnchristopher 9y ago

> Not really - there's a reason why the Android phones that have tap to wake require two taps in quick succession, or similar. It's very difficult to accidentally trigger it. That's not my experience. When I put the phone in my pocket I have to take care of positionning the back against my body otherwise my skin through the jeans trigger pocket calls.

untog 9y ago
I'll believe it. But Apple typically does better than the average Android phone when it comes to hardware sensors, I imagine they'll be able to detect the difference.
Eupolemos 9y ago
On the M8 it is done really simple: if it is upside-down, it can't wake from tapping. Super simple and fluent in daily life (once you know it).
- soylentcola 9y ago
  On the phones I've owned with tap-to-wake, it wasn't a full unlock, just some level of the lock screen being illuminated. With my old Moto X, I could just wave my hand over the phone while it was laying next to me and a minimal version of the lock screen with clock and notifications would show up. On my current phone (Pixel) it does the same with a double tap: clock, notifications, nothing else. The phone doesn't unlock until I use the fingerprint reader or swipe my lock pattern.

jasonkostempski 9y ago

"The facial recognition stuff seems odd to me" Any type of "authentication" wouldn't make sense, that'd be as silly as a finger print scanner. Smile detector might be fun but certainly not worth the privacy trade off. There's only 1 useful feature I can think of and I've yet to see it done: when my head is sideways and the phone is sideways, I'm lying down, don't rotate the frickin' screen. Still not worth the privacy trade off, but people who don't care will be very happy.