5 ms·

Good. You don’t get to be isolationist and racist without losing the benefits of trade with the rest of Europe. The nation will be punished for the series of mi

by AJRF 9y ago

Good. You don’t get to be isolationist and racist without losing the benefits of trade with the rest of Europe. The nation will be punished for the series of missteps that led it here, but this time they can’t blame diplomats in Brussels.

struppi 9y ago
Well, not only the nation will be "punished" (and I don't think that punishing the UK for wanting to leave would be right). This article is how the banks suffer, most of them are probably not from the UK. Not as a punishment, but as a direct consequence of Brexit. And the EU will suffer too. So, Schadenfreude is maybe a bit short-sighted here... Edited to emphasize that I do not think this discussion should be about punishment. And the linked article is definitely not about punishment.
- dx034 9y ago
  But the EU will suffer relatively less than the UK. And (except for Ireland) this will be concentrated on countries that are doing well at the moment and can absorb a small shock.
  - struppi 9y ago
    Well, I have no doubt that the EU, the UK and most companies can survive this thing. It's still a waste of money...
  - coldtea 9y ago
    >But the EU will suffer relatively less than the UK. Well, the EU is not in any great shape itself, and has been going from bad to worse before Brexit was even a thing.
peteretep 9y ago
While I have some sympathy for your perspective, this seem to primarily be an article about American banks losing money.
tyingq 9y ago
Xenophobia and racism aren't necessarily the same thing. Edit: I'm open to the idea that some (edit: some portion of..I have no idea what the split is) supporters aren't xenophobic either. The "racism" tag just bugs me in this context.
- gadders 9y ago
  And being anti-uncontrolled immigration doesn't make you racist or xenophobic either.
- coldtea 9y ago
  Nor is willing to control your own borders and who's welcome or not the same as a "phobia" (except in the sense that everything that prevents something is a phobia, e.g. taking an umbrella out in the rain is "hydrophobia").
- Zenst 9y ago
  "some" - many if not most, but what would I know apart from living there and knowing many non-racist people.
  - tyingq 9y ago
    I specifically chose "some" because I have no idea what the split is, and again...I don't presume racism.
    - Zenst 9y ago
      Yet the wording use of "some" implies a minority and that infers the majority are racist, which counters you explanation and probably you intentions. No denying all countries have racists, they get to vote and in many cases are a small minority and yet so many project the few upon the many and run with it that it is utterly shocking to see and disenfranchising at best.
      - tyingq 9y ago
        Edited. (though "some implies a minority" is debatable. look it up) However, you keep saying "racist". My point was racism is less likely than xenophobia. Country of origin and religion aren't race.
coldtea 9y ago
>Good. You don’t get to be isolationist and racist without losing the benefits of trade with the rest of Europe. Actually you do. It's all in the power relations. And Europe is plenty racist in itself anyway.
gadders 9y ago
I don't think leaving the EU so you can trade more widely with the rest of the world makes you isolationist.
- struppi 9y ago
  "so you can trade more widely" I'm still curious if this will work exactly like the optimists think it will. Only time will tell, but it will depend a lot on the final agreement between the EU and the UK. Because if there is no deal (esp. no free trade agreement), the UK will, at first, NOT be able to trade more widely...
  - gadders 9y ago
    It will trade under WTO rules, same as the rest of the world does with the EU. Do you imagine everything bought and sold in the EU are made in the EU?
lin_lin 9y ago
Are other European countries that aren't in the EU also racist and isolationist?
- paganel 9y ago
  Norway and Switzerland, even though they don't want to admit just yet. Mostly because they have lots of money in their coffers, but when (and if) that money runs out they'll get back to "free movement of people in search of work is good!". There's a reason why the Pope's guard is made up of Swiss people, and that is because 300-400 years ago the Swiss were way poorer compared to the peoples around them so they had to go out of their country to find decent work.
  - tveita 9y ago
    Both Switzerland and Norway already have already implemented free movement of people within EEA, so I don't get your argument.
    - paganel 9y ago
      I'm Romanian and starting a couple of months ago I can't work freely in Switzerland anymore: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/quota-control_swiss-limit-immigration-from-bulgaria-romania/43171632 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/quota-control_swiss-limit-immig... .
Zenst 9y ago
Sad to see such a comment upon HN - shocked and surprised even. Since when do we allow glib false accusations of "racist" to be tolerated without supporting evidence based upon actual facts.
- vetinari 9y ago
  > Since when do we allow glib false accusations of "racist" to be tolerated without supporting evidence based upon actual facts. At least since Trump's campaign. Thinking about it, I do not remember to see any accusation of "racist", "bigot" or "sexist" to be substantiated with any evidence.
  - Zenst 9y ago
    That is true, but sadly it seems to be allowed and tolerated by the media and propagated. Sure there will be racists and they get to vote, but to presume they are the majority and to project upon the many is and always will be disenfranchising and as bad a racism, for it is discrimination after all without merit.
tonyedgecombe 9y ago
Don't worry, our politicians will continue to blame the EU for our ills long after we have left.

by AJRF 9y ago

struppi 9y ago

Well, not only the nation will be "punished" (and I don't think that punishing the UK for wanting to leave would be right). This article is how the banks suffer, most of them are probably not from the UK. Not as a punishment, but as a direct consequence of Brexit. And the EU will suffer too. So, Schadenfreude is maybe a bit short-sighted here... Edited to emphasize that I do not think this discussion should be about punishment. And the linked article is definitely not about punishment.

dx034 9y ago
But the EU will suffer relatively less than the UK. And (except for Ireland) this will be concentrated on countries that are doing well at the moment and can absorb a small shock.
- struppi 9y ago
  Well, I have no doubt that the EU, the UK and most companies can survive this thing. It's still a waste of money...
- coldtea 9y ago
  >But the EU will suffer relatively less than the UK. Well, the EU is not in any great shape itself, and has been going from bad to worse before Brexit was even a thing.

peteretep 9y ago

While I have some sympathy for your perspective, this seem to primarily be an article about American banks losing money.

tyingq 9y ago

Xenophobia and racism aren't necessarily the same thing. Edit: I'm open to the idea that some (edit: some portion of..I have no idea what the split is) supporters aren't xenophobic either. The "racism" tag just bugs me in this context.

gadders 9y ago
And being anti-uncontrolled immigration doesn't make you racist or xenophobic either.
coldtea 9y ago
Nor is willing to control your own borders and who's welcome or not the same as a "phobia" (except in the sense that everything that prevents something is a phobia, e.g. taking an umbrella out in the rain is "hydrophobia").
Zenst 9y ago
"some" - many if not most, but what would I know apart from living there and knowing many non-racist people.
- tyingq 9y ago
  I specifically chose "some" because I have no idea what the split is, and again...I don't presume racism.
  - Zenst 9y ago
    Yet the wording use of "some" implies a minority and that infers the majority are racist, which counters you explanation and probably you intentions. No denying all countries have racists, they get to vote and in many cases are a small minority and yet so many project the few upon the many and run with it that it is utterly shocking to see and disenfranchising at best.
    - tyingq 9y ago
      Edited. (though "some implies a minority" is debatable. look it up) However, you keep saying "racist". My point was racism is less likely than xenophobia. Country of origin and religion aren't race.

coldtea 9y ago

>Good. You don’t get to be isolationist and racist without losing the benefits of trade with the rest of Europe. Actually you do. It's all in the power relations. And Europe is plenty racist in itself anyway.

gadders 9y ago

I don't think leaving the EU so you can trade more widely with the rest of the world makes you isolationist.

struppi 9y ago
"so you can trade more widely" I'm still curious if this will work exactly like the optimists think it will. Only time will tell, but it will depend a lot on the final agreement between the EU and the UK. Because if there is no deal (esp. no free trade agreement), the UK will, at first, NOT be able to trade more widely...
- gadders 9y ago
  It will trade under WTO rules, same as the rest of the world does with the EU. Do you imagine everything bought and sold in the EU are made in the EU?

lin_lin 9y ago

Are other European countries that aren't in the EU also racist and isolationist?

paganel 9y ago
Norway and Switzerland, even though they don't want to admit just yet. Mostly because they have lots of money in their coffers, but when (and if) that money runs out they'll get back to "free movement of people in search of work is good!". There's a reason why the Pope's guard is made up of Swiss people, and that is because 300-400 years ago the Swiss were way poorer compared to the peoples around them so they had to go out of their country to find decent work.
- tveita 9y ago
  Both Switzerland and Norway already have already implemented free movement of people within EEA, so I don't get your argument.
  - paganel 9y ago
    I'm Romanian and starting a couple of months ago I can't work freely in Switzerland anymore: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/quota-control_swiss-limit-immigration-from-bulgaria-romania/43171632 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/quota-control_swiss-limit-immig... .

Zenst 9y ago

Sad to see such a comment upon HN - shocked and surprised even. Since when do we allow glib false accusations of "racist" to be tolerated without supporting evidence based upon actual facts.

vetinari 9y ago
> Since when do we allow glib false accusations of "racist" to be tolerated without supporting evidence based upon actual facts. At least since Trump's campaign. Thinking about it, I do not remember to see any accusation of "racist", "bigot" or "sexist" to be substantiated with any evidence.
- Zenst 9y ago
  That is true, but sadly it seems to be allowed and tolerated by the media and propagated. Sure there will be racists and they get to vote, but to presume they are the majority and to project upon the many is and always will be disenfranchising and as bad a racism, for it is discrimination after all without merit.

tonyedgecombe 9y ago

Don't worry, our politicians will continue to blame the EU for our ills long after we have left.