4 ms·

twitter bought its logo for hella cheap, but go find an online graphical design community. Most of them are looking for any type of work to add to their portfol

twitter bought its logo for hella cheap, but go find an online graphical design community. Most of them are looking for any type of work to add to their portfolio and most will do it for free or on the cheap.

huwshimi 16y ago
I really have to disagree here. I think this is absolutely the wrong attitude to have towards the design community. If someone came to this community and asked to build them an app for free they would get shut down. Instead of putting up $300 on 99 design have a look around for a designer that makes logos that you like the look of and send them an email and ask what they can do for that amount. You might only get a few hours of their time, but you're probably going to get a much better result, and you'll be doing the whole design community a favour by not asking for free work. EDIT: As a stop-gap, the inkscape option that pwim suggested sounds good.
- techiferous 16y ago
  "you'll be doing the whole design community a favour by not asking for free work." This is a free market. Supply and demand. If people are willing to do quality work for free, let them. If someone is looking for quality work and they find it for free, they should take it. Doing a group of professionals "a favour" does not enter into the equation. "If someone came to this community and asked to build them an app for free they would get shut down." That's because no one made millions because of a logo. Apps are simply more valuable than logos, period. And they require more skill to create.
  - Zev 16y ago
    Apps are simply more valuable than logos, period. It isn't too hard to make an app generator that pumps up generic apps in a similar way that icons can be made by slightly tweaking another preexisting icon. The value with apps is much the same as it is with icons (or design, in general); in how unique and well thought out it is, how well it applies to what you need it for.
  - woodrow 16y ago
    I agree with your first point in as much as people are free to work or not work as they please. That said, here's some perspective from the design side which may help you understand how designers may think about these kinds of things, even if you disagree or find it a touch extreme: http://www.no-spec.com/faq/ http://www.no-spec.com/faq/ As for your second point, how much would you say the brand equity of Apple, Coca-Cola, or Nike is worth? They would simply be selling electronics, sugary water, and shoes if they didn't have design and marketing experts building and executing their brand (experts who I'm sure have been compensated quite handsomely). While I'll agree that it's easier to "throw together" a logo than a web app, good design does require reasonable skill, training, and experience. ADDED: I guess I should be clear that I'm rebutting the assertion that design is necessarily less valuable than software development, not that startups require Fortune 500 branding.
    - wdewind 16y ago
      Many of the issues no-spec brings up (ie: mostly misleading the designer about potential reward) are not present on 99Designs and contest sites, as people knowingly compete in contests for exact terms up front, not for potential jobs. The brands you mention are priceless, but the logo is not. Nike's logo was cheap as hell, for instance. 99Designs serves a completely different market, and I think the "How much is a F500 Company's brand worth?" argument HEAVILY confuses marketing, design, branding and advertising.
    - natrius 16y ago
      In the early stages of a company, the logo contributes very little to the company's success. All it does is signal that the company is somewhat professional. It requires little uncommon expertise to achieve this goal. The comparison to Apple, Coke and Nike isn't applicable. You're describing a different product than most startups are looking for. Exhibit A: http://techcrunch.com/2006/07/15/is-twttr-interesting/ http://techcrunch.com/2006/07/15/is-twttr-interesting/ Exhibit B: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_logo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_logo
      - techiferous 16y ago
        Here's another example: the GoDaddy logo. http://www.dotweekly.com/the-story-behind-the-godaddy-name-and-logo http://www.dotweekly.com/the-story-behind-the-godaddy-name-a...
  - samwillis 16y ago
    I have to disagree with you, saying that making a web app takes more skill than designing a logo is simple not true. Both developing web apps and graphic design are highly skilled professions, graphic designers can take years to develop the expertise to design something truly great just as it can take years to develop the skills required to develop successful webapps. Your logo is the single most important part of your brand and it drives the graphic design of the rest of you website. It is true that anyone with a little time can create a logo by choosing a typeface adding some colour and a drop shadow but making a logo that tells you something and holds a message is much much harder. I would be tempted to say that logo design is probably the hardest aspect of graphic design to master. For an example of a very clever logo that hold a hidden message take a look at the FedEx logo, see if you can spot the hidden image. Designing both a logo and a webapp are about knowing the audience and what makes them tick. With that said something like 99 designs is actually a good way to get a first logo for your webapp. You can always iterate on the logo when you know the market is ready for your app, just don't underestimate it's importance.
  - peteforde 16y ago
    You are confusing logos and brands. Branding is not something that can or should be rushed. A branding process includes so much more than just a logo, and can cost thousands or millions. The best comparison might be a white plastic yard chair and a vintage leather Eames recliner with matching ottoman. You can sit on both chairs.
- macco 16y ago
  Did you have experience with this? Do you have any experience with logo competition and logo designers?
- c1sc0 16y ago
  Except that in my experience good designers are already on 99designs as a way to generate sales leads for their own businesses.
b1ind 16y ago
Oh yeah, web designers love when people ask for free work because they "love to do it anyway" or because its "good for their portfolio" /sarcasm
- billswift 16y ago
  Or because it could result in more sales, if they do a job the customer likes? I would not do a big job for free, but I have often done small "sample"-type work, including logos and quick and dirty letterheads, for new businesses, in the hopes of more work when they grow to need it. (My design work was on paper, back in the 1990s, I haven't done any graphics design on computer, I'm not set up for it.)
- tbranch227 16y ago
  Agreed! I have so many favorite career moments, but that definitely tops the list. The second being coming up with the entire concept of their site because they don't know what they want.
theprodigy 16y ago
I was just trying to say that there are talented graphic design students willing to do stuff for free to get the experience. Just go talk to some. With the current economic climate today I think there are a lot of unemployed artists, especially the newly graduated who at the moment maybe at a dead end job, but would be willing to design a logo for the experience. I've gotten free work from artist many times. I am well connected so they may do it for me for a future gain, which I don't mind. Furthermore, the strength of a brand and logo is dependent on how well you execute and meet the expectations of the customer. Nike, coke, etc are well know because they offer satisfying products that meets or exceeds the customers expectations. Kotler and Jagdesh Sheth both teach this. You can have the coolest logo in the world but your app, for example, sucks shit your logo means shit.

huwshimi 16y ago

I really have to disagree here. I think this is absolutely the wrong attitude to have towards the design community. If someone came to this community and asked to build them an app for free they would get shut down. Instead of putting up $300 on 99 design have a look around for a designer that makes logos that you like the look of and send them an email and ask what they can do for that amount. You might only get a few hours of their time, but you're probably going to get a much better result, and you'll be doing the whole design community a favour by not asking for free work. EDIT: As a stop-gap, the inkscape option that pwim suggested sounds good.

techiferous 16y ago
"you'll be doing the whole design community a favour by not asking for free work." This is a free market. Supply and demand. If people are willing to do quality work for free, let them. If someone is looking for quality work and they find it for free, they should take it. Doing a group of professionals "a favour" does not enter into the equation. "If someone came to this community and asked to build them an app for free they would get shut down." That's because no one made millions because of a logo. Apps are simply more valuable than logos, period. And they require more skill to create.
- Zev 16y ago
  Apps are simply more valuable than logos, period. It isn't too hard to make an app generator that pumps up generic apps in a similar way that icons can be made by slightly tweaking another preexisting icon. The value with apps is much the same as it is with icons (or design, in general); in how unique and well thought out it is, how well it applies to what you need it for.
- woodrow 16y ago
  I agree with your first point in as much as people are free to work or not work as they please. That said, here's some perspective from the design side which may help you understand how designers may think about these kinds of things, even if you disagree or find it a touch extreme: http://www.no-spec.com/faq/ http://www.no-spec.com/faq/ As for your second point, how much would you say the brand equity of Apple, Coca-Cola, or Nike is worth? They would simply be selling electronics, sugary water, and shoes if they didn't have design and marketing experts building and executing their brand (experts who I'm sure have been compensated quite handsomely). While I'll agree that it's easier to "throw together" a logo than a web app, good design does require reasonable skill, training, and experience. ADDED: I guess I should be clear that I'm rebutting the assertion that design is necessarily less valuable than software development, not that startups require Fortune 500 branding.
  - wdewind 16y ago
    Many of the issues no-spec brings up (ie: mostly misleading the designer about potential reward) are not present on 99Designs and contest sites, as people knowingly compete in contests for exact terms up front, not for potential jobs. The brands you mention are priceless, but the logo is not. Nike's logo was cheap as hell, for instance. 99Designs serves a completely different market, and I think the "How much is a F500 Company's brand worth?" argument HEAVILY confuses marketing, design, branding and advertising.
  - natrius 16y ago
    In the early stages of a company, the logo contributes very little to the company's success. All it does is signal that the company is somewhat professional. It requires little uncommon expertise to achieve this goal. The comparison to Apple, Coke and Nike isn't applicable. You're describing a different product than most startups are looking for. Exhibit A: http://techcrunch.com/2006/07/15/is-twttr-interesting/ http://techcrunch.com/2006/07/15/is-twttr-interesting/ Exhibit B: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_logo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_logo
    - techiferous 16y ago
      Here's another example: the GoDaddy logo. http://www.dotweekly.com/the-story-behind-the-godaddy-name-and-logo http://www.dotweekly.com/the-story-behind-the-godaddy-name-a...
- samwillis 16y ago
  I have to disagree with you, saying that making a web app takes more skill than designing a logo is simple not true. Both developing web apps and graphic design are highly skilled professions, graphic designers can take years to develop the expertise to design something truly great just as it can take years to develop the skills required to develop successful webapps. Your logo is the single most important part of your brand and it drives the graphic design of the rest of you website. It is true that anyone with a little time can create a logo by choosing a typeface adding some colour and a drop shadow but making a logo that tells you something and holds a message is much much harder. I would be tempted to say that logo design is probably the hardest aspect of graphic design to master. For an example of a very clever logo that hold a hidden message take a look at the FedEx logo, see if you can spot the hidden image. Designing both a logo and a webapp are about knowing the audience and what makes them tick. With that said something like 99 designs is actually a good way to get a first logo for your webapp. You can always iterate on the logo when you know the market is ready for your app, just don't underestimate it's importance.
- peteforde 16y ago
  You are confusing logos and brands. Branding is not something that can or should be rushed. A branding process includes so much more than just a logo, and can cost thousands or millions. The best comparison might be a white plastic yard chair and a vintage leather Eames recliner with matching ottoman. You can sit on both chairs.
macco 16y ago
Did you have experience with this? Do you have any experience with logo competition and logo designers?
c1sc0 16y ago
Except that in my experience good designers are already on 99designs as a way to generate sales leads for their own businesses.

b1ind 16y ago

Oh yeah, web designers love when people ask for free work because they "love to do it anyway" or because its "good for their portfolio" /sarcasm

billswift 16y ago
Or because it could result in more sales, if they do a job the customer likes? I would not do a big job for free, but I have often done small "sample"-type work, including logos and quick and dirty letterheads, for new businesses, in the hopes of more work when they grow to need it. (My design work was on paper, back in the 1990s, I haven't done any graphics design on computer, I'm not set up for it.)
tbranch227 16y ago
Agreed! I have so many favorite career moments, but that definitely tops the list. The second being coming up with the entire concept of their site because they don't know what they want.

theprodigy 16y ago

I was just trying to say that there are talented graphic design students willing to do stuff for free to get the experience. Just go talk to some. With the current economic climate today I think there are a lot of unemployed artists, especially the newly graduated who at the moment maybe at a dead end job, but would be willing to design a logo for the experience. I've gotten free work from artist many times. I am well connected so they may do it for me for a future gain, which I don't mind. Furthermore, the strength of a brand and logo is dependent on how well you execute and meet the expectations of the customer. Nike, coke, etc are well know because they offer satisfying products that meets or exceeds the customers expectations. Kotler and Jagdesh Sheth both teach this. You can have the coolest logo in the world but your app, for example, sucks shit your logo means shit.