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> I can't think of a single popular site redesign that actually made the site better. Seriously? How about Google.com? Google Maps? Gmail? Apple.com? CNN? Uber

> I can't think of a single popular site redesign that actually made the site better. Seriously? How about Google.com? Google Maps? Gmail? Apple.com? CNN? Uber? Surely you must believe at least some of those made the site better...

vasili111 9y ago
It is controversial. For example, Gmail old design was much better for me than current white design which makes much harder to read for me.
pluma 9y ago
Apple.com is a marketing site. It's essentially a brochure that is expected to change completely for every new release of the product. The only major Google Maps redesign was from the original boxy low-fi design to the modern pan & zoom gestural design with overlays. The redesigns after that were mostly incremental and rarely affected the general look and feel of the site. There have been a number of design changes recently to unify it with the mobile app and some would argue those weren't always for the better (much like YouTube where it sometimes feels like the UX is getting worse every time). Google.com always was fairly minimalist to begin with and that never changed much except for additions like the cards added to the mobile site to bring it in line with Chrome for Android. Again, whether these additions are good or not is heavily disputed. GMail is yet another case of a site that never underwent a significant redesign but merely iterations on the same look and feel. I can't say anything on CNN or Uber because I don't frequent them sufficiently to have observed any redesign other than Uber's confused rebranding earlier last year. The way the new design for Reddit is being described reminds me of the Digg redesign. If you don't remember Digg: Digg was essentially pretty much like Reddit, the biggest differentiator was the community. Digg completely redesigned the site because it was failing hard. Digg today is irrelevant and what little community there was has left before the redesign largely been displaced by the redesign (and refocussing). Changing aspects of a design that are so strongly part of its look and feel (or it's "DNA" if you insist on being poetical) is extremely risky and extremely easy to do badly. It's especially dangerous if you apparently only do it because you want something new/prettier. HN and Craigslist don't look ancient because of a lack of effort, they look that way because the designs work and there's not much to be gained from changing it.
- bhnmmhmd 9y ago
  Actually, Gmail used to be faster before they added dynamic elements to it. (For slow connections, it still has an option to switch back to the previous design). I hate it when websites use JavaScript for most of their functionalities. I would always prefer static HTML/CSS pages over shiny, bloated, distracting, non-functional JavaScript-enabled ones.
- virgilp 9y ago
  You can claim anything that you don't dislike is "not redesign", but come on, if adding tabs on top of Gmail was not redesign, I don't know what is. And, just look at gmail now vs. 2004, how can you say it's not redesigned? Any large, sudden redesign is heavily disputed - that much is obvious, and for good reason, since it changes habits. Maps itself goes through continuous redesign, but each modification is "incremental" as you call it. The end result is fairly drastically changed if you look many years back, but well.... I guess it only had incremental redesign, all along the way. I guess what I'm saying is that if reddit launches one big-bang "completely new reddit" - yeah, I agree, it's very likely to fail. But if they incrementally change it to something else, and backtrack on the bad decisions - few people will notice the radical change, they'll just remember the many small ones.
silverbax88 9y ago
Google Maps is far worse, CNN is horrible (autoplay by default? Really? Story stubs? Really?) Gmail has always been a design nightmare. Reddit going through a redesign will almost certainly create a competitor that people will flock to.
- joshuamorton 9y ago
  You mean like voat?
  - silverbax88 9y ago
    Probably could have worked if they'd gotten their act together. But Reddit only became Reddit after Digg made their major redesign. There would have to be something out there that does what Reddit does, and be ready if people bolt.
lucideer 9y ago
The line you quoted does seem to go too far (I'm sure there are some redesigns out there that improved things), but your listed examples really compound it. Google.com has only ever had tiny tweaks, yet if you read the recent HN comment thread on Instant Search it's enough to show that even these small changes were significant regressions. Apple.com, as has been mentioned, is a different case. The rest have pretty categorically disimproved with each iteration. I doubt many would disagree here.
- virgilp 9y ago
  https://www.slideshare.net/seosmarty/google-home-page-evolution https://www.slideshare.net/seosmarty/google-home-page-evolut... It did evolve, and yes, Google constantly experiments with/ tweaks it, as a matter of fact. I never claimed that sudden radical changes are a good idea - they are very risky, at the very least. And generate dissatisfaction even when done right. > The rest have pretty categorically disimproved with each iteration. I doubt many would disagree here. What? That's crazy. Both gmail and google maps have radically improved over their original versions. You're of course free to disagree, since these sorts of things are subjective; but I'm confident that you won't find a majority of users to share that opinion.
tomelders 9y ago
Google maps is a disaster.
- astrodust 9y ago
  They killed the yellow person, which caused such an outcry they brought them back.

vasili111 9y ago

It is controversial. For example, Gmail old design was much better for me than current white design which makes much harder to read for me.

pluma 9y ago

Apple.com is a marketing site. It's essentially a brochure that is expected to change completely for every new release of the product. The only major Google Maps redesign was from the original boxy low-fi design to the modern pan & zoom gestural design with overlays. The redesigns after that were mostly incremental and rarely affected the general look and feel of the site. There have been a number of design changes recently to unify it with the mobile app and some would argue those weren't always for the better (much like YouTube where it sometimes feels like the UX is getting worse every time). Google.com always was fairly minimalist to begin with and that never changed much except for additions like the cards added to the mobile site to bring it in line with Chrome for Android. Again, whether these additions are good or not is heavily disputed. GMail is yet another case of a site that never underwent a significant redesign but merely iterations on the same look and feel. I can't say anything on CNN or Uber because I don't frequent them sufficiently to have observed any redesign other than Uber's confused rebranding earlier last year. The way the new design for Reddit is being described reminds me of the Digg redesign. If you don't remember Digg: Digg was essentially pretty much like Reddit, the biggest differentiator was the community. Digg completely redesigned the site because it was failing hard. Digg today is irrelevant and what little community there was has left before the redesign largely been displaced by the redesign (and refocussing). Changing aspects of a design that are so strongly part of its look and feel (or it's "DNA" if you insist on being poetical) is extremely risky and extremely easy to do badly. It's especially dangerous if you apparently only do it because you want something new/prettier. HN and Craigslist don't look ancient because of a lack of effort, they look that way because the designs work and there's not much to be gained from changing it.

bhnmmhmd 9y ago
Actually, Gmail used to be faster before they added dynamic elements to it. (For slow connections, it still has an option to switch back to the previous design). I hate it when websites use JavaScript for most of their functionalities. I would always prefer static HTML/CSS pages over shiny, bloated, distracting, non-functional JavaScript-enabled ones.
virgilp 9y ago
You can claim anything that you don't dislike is "not redesign", but come on, if adding tabs on top of Gmail was not redesign, I don't know what is. And, just look at gmail now vs. 2004, how can you say it's not redesigned? Any large, sudden redesign is heavily disputed - that much is obvious, and for good reason, since it changes habits. Maps itself goes through continuous redesign, but each modification is "incremental" as you call it. The end result is fairly drastically changed if you look many years back, but well.... I guess it only had incremental redesign, all along the way. I guess what I'm saying is that if reddit launches one big-bang "completely new reddit" - yeah, I agree, it's very likely to fail. But if they incrementally change it to something else, and backtrack on the bad decisions - few people will notice the radical change, they'll just remember the many small ones.

silverbax88 9y ago

Google Maps is far worse, CNN is horrible (autoplay by default? Really? Story stubs? Really?) Gmail has always been a design nightmare. Reddit going through a redesign will almost certainly create a competitor that people will flock to.

joshuamorton 9y ago
You mean like voat?
- silverbax88 9y ago
  Probably could have worked if they'd gotten their act together. But Reddit only became Reddit after Digg made their major redesign. There would have to be something out there that does what Reddit does, and be ready if people bolt.

lucideer 9y ago

The line you quoted does seem to go too far (I'm sure there are some redesigns out there that improved things), but your listed examples really compound it. Google.com has only ever had tiny tweaks, yet if you read the recent HN comment thread on Instant Search it's enough to show that even these small changes were significant regressions. Apple.com, as has been mentioned, is a different case. The rest have pretty categorically disimproved with each iteration. I doubt many would disagree here.

virgilp 9y ago
https://www.slideshare.net/seosmarty/google-home-page-evolution https://www.slideshare.net/seosmarty/google-home-page-evolut... It did evolve, and yes, Google constantly experiments with/ tweaks it, as a matter of fact. I never claimed that sudden radical changes are a good idea - they are very risky, at the very least. And generate dissatisfaction even when done right. > The rest have pretty categorically disimproved with each iteration. I doubt many would disagree here. What? That's crazy. Both gmail and google maps have radically improved over their original versions. You're of course free to disagree, since these sorts of things are subjective; but I'm confident that you won't find a majority of users to share that opinion.

tomelders 9y ago

Google maps is a disaster.

astrodust 9y ago
They killed the yellow person, which caused such an outcry they brought them back.