8 ms·

Oh god, I despair of this country. After a decade of conservative I have never been so disillusioned. I feel like I am stuck in a rut or like, I don't belong he

sshagent 9y ago
Agreed. Those semi regular approached by Work to relocate perhaps shoudln't be dismissed out of hand. Would love to leave the country until all this brexit shit washes over
hd4 9y ago
Iktf. The Brexit shit won't wash away, not in our lifetimes. I'm looking at France or Switzerland. This Bizarro country can't be the best that humanity can do.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- scaryclam 9y ago
  You realise that Switzerland isn't in the EU...right?
  - k-mcgrady 9y ago
    Can't speak for OP but a lot of people's problem with Brexit isn't just the fact we won't be in the EU anymore but the things that come along with that. There's a lot of stuff our government wants to do that the EU has prevented until now. There's also the 'extreme' element in society feeling they can be more open now (racism, hate crimes, etc.).
  - hackerboos 9y ago
    You can still move to Switzerland as an EU citizen. https://www.ch.ch/en/working-switzerland-eu-efta https://www.ch.ch/en/working-switzerland-eu-efta
fredley 9y ago
I am in the same boat. I am staying at the moment because of my work situation and my family, but I have an inevitable sense that should either of those situations change, particularly the former, I'll be actively looking to move out. The war on reasoning and facts is too intense, and even though I'm largely sheltered from it where I live and work (almost everyone I know has similar views to me on these matters), it's becoming too much to bear. I do love my country, and it has a lot to give the World, which makes it all the more painful to see it go through such a transformation.
- branchless 9y ago
  By the time you reach they point where it is very clear you should leave it will be too late. Prepare now by selecting a country and starting the long immigration process, it's not an option you have to exercise.
- beagle3 9y ago
  It is happening simultaneously almost everywhere. Different countries are at different stages, but it doesn't look like anywhere is a safe haven. Having lived in several countries over the years, the grass is rarely greener as a whole - some parts are, and they may matter more to you, but the western world is mostly on par on everything. Where did you think of going?
  - fredley 9y ago
    Germany or Holland are contenders. While they may not have a perfect political climate, almost anywhere in the Western world is an improvement on the UK.
    - Havoc 9y ago
      Germany isn't far behind on their monitoring stuff. Not sure about Holland
  - ionised 9y ago
    Iceland, if I can learn the language to a sufficient degree.
blibble 9y ago
not as if the same thing is happening in France, Germany or the EU is it? https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/28/german_french_ministers_breaking_encryption/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/28/german_french_minis... sadly it seems as if all security services in nearly all developed countries want this sort of thing, and the UK is simply a few months ahead here
- mattrichardson 9y ago
  EU are working to prevent it https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/19/eu-outlaw-backdoors-new-data-privacy-proposals-uk-government-encrypted-communications-whatsapp https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/19/eu-outlaw...
  - blibble 9y ago
    the Parliament doesn't have any ability to legislate to stop it the governments of the member states (essentially the Council) want it, so it will happen
    - k-mcgrady 9y ago
      Surely it can be stopped by the courts though? They've helped force the UK back slightly on mass surveillance already [0]. I'm sure a challenge will be brought on the basis of freedom of expression (Article 10 ECHR) if any governments move to ban encryption. I mean it's an incredibly obvious impediment to free expression. I know personally if encryption goes I will be self-censoring a hell of a lot more (particularly when it comes to texting more extreme jokes for example). Of course, with the UK leaving the EU and potentially tearing up the Human Rights Act it might not matter but as for the EU having power to stop this in EU member states I think the courts are the most likely solution. [0] https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3245181-C-203-15-amp-C-698-15-Arre-T-En.html https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3245181-C-203-15-amp...
      - gsnedders 9y ago
        Heck, see Malone v. the United Kingdom (ECtHR; 1984), which formed some precedence on the ability to legally do mass surveillance. This isn't new.
zerebubuth 9y ago
> by the time that millennials walk the halls of power, their parents will have signed away all their rights. I don't think this is a generational thing. Governments have always been trying to spy on their citizens since governments have existed. Back in the 1700s, John Wallis and the Rossignols were routinely reading diplomatic letters. Before the invention of the internet, the "Special Investigations Unit" of the Post Office was routinely opening people's letters and copying them to MI5. Even Snowden's revelations simply show that the government continues to pry into everyone's private lives - only the scale of the abuse has been magnified. When so-called "millennials" walk the halls of power, they'll try to spy on their citizens too. Their bogeyman might not be terrorism - that was their parents' bogeyman, and their grandparents' were Communists, their great-grandparents' were Fifth Columnists, etc... It's not clear how to make the situation any better when both major parties in the UK are committed authoritarians whose security policies are dictated by MI5 and GCHQ. The public, "millennials" or not, in the UK seemed quite unmoved by the Snowden revelations, and seem happy for the panopticon to continue.
mdekkers 9y ago
Oh god, I despair of this country. After a decade of conservative I have never been so disillusioned. I feel like I am stuck in a rut or like, I don't belong here. It is a horrible feeling. Deep down I know that the government is stuck in 1740 and by the time that millennials walk the halls of power, their parents will have signed away all their rights. The very last thing I love is my country, that is for sure. Careful now, that sounds alarmingly subversive. You might be a pre-terrorist, and we need to see all your files, have your private encryption keys, and monitor all your communications. You know, because terrorism. Of course, if you'd join the Tories, we can make things easier for you....
- Fifer82 9y ago
  "We are under attack day and night from people who do not share our liberal values....". In order to combat that threat, lets remove those liberal values.
jff 9y ago
> by the time that millennials walk the halls of power, their parents will have signed away all their rights. It's not as though 'millennials' are so big on rights, take a look at Twitter to see how happy people are to suppress e.g. free speech as long as they're the ones who get to do the suppressing.
- zanny 9y ago
  This might just reflect on one of the more sinister aspects of democracy. You live life expecting eventually "your people" will take over some day. That generations prior were monolithic and wrong, and that since your own peers share your mindset it must mean people your age are just wiser. Eventually, you realize that you were just in the intellectual minority of a generation that was majority unintellectual. Like every generation pretty much ever. We have just become extremely effective in isolating ourselves from exposure to the real "average". But even online, there is a vast difference between the ignorance of certain sects of Facebook or the comments on a yahoo news story and the trolls on 4chan - the later are still "our" people. Even if they want to abuse their intellectual leanings, they still grew up with that mindset. The average Facebook post or comment on a Fox News or CNN story reflects the broader, more general mindset much better. And the outlook isn't good. For any generation.
  - EugeneAZ 9y ago
    IQ qualification for the privilege to vote.
    - zanny 9y ago
      It isn't IQ. It is environmental culture during childhood development. If you grow up in a family that values intellectualism you will probably be intellectual, curious, logical, and skeptical. If you grow up in a family that is hostile to intellectualism, you are more likely to be ignorant and manipulated by emotional falsities as well. The problem is more kids are growing up anti-intellectual than intellectual. IQ has nothing to do with that, intellectuals uplifted civilization from effectively universal anti-intellectualism (at least in Europe) in the 16th century to where we are now. We have the most intellectuals ever now, but that doesn't mean we are close to a majority, and that also means as long as anti-intellectualism is prevalent you need systems of rule by minority (in various forms) to see progress happen.

sshagent 9y ago

Agreed. Those semi regular approached by Work to relocate perhaps shoudln't be dismissed out of hand. Would love to leave the country until all this brexit shit washes over

hd4 9y ago

Iktf. The Brexit shit won't wash away, not in our lifetimes. I'm looking at France or Switzerland. This Bizarro country can't be the best that humanity can do.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
scaryclam 9y ago
You realise that Switzerland isn't in the EU...right?
- k-mcgrady 9y ago
  Can't speak for OP but a lot of people's problem with Brexit isn't just the fact we won't be in the EU anymore but the things that come along with that. There's a lot of stuff our government wants to do that the EU has prevented until now. There's also the 'extreme' element in society feeling they can be more open now (racism, hate crimes, etc.).
- hackerboos 9y ago
  You can still move to Switzerland as an EU citizen. https://www.ch.ch/en/working-switzerland-eu-efta https://www.ch.ch/en/working-switzerland-eu-efta

fredley 9y ago

I am in the same boat. I am staying at the moment because of my work situation and my family, but I have an inevitable sense that should either of those situations change, particularly the former, I'll be actively looking to move out. The war on reasoning and facts is too intense, and even though I'm largely sheltered from it where I live and work (almost everyone I know has similar views to me on these matters), it's becoming too much to bear. I do love my country, and it has a lot to give the World, which makes it all the more painful to see it go through such a transformation.

branchless 9y ago
By the time you reach they point where it is very clear you should leave it will be too late. Prepare now by selecting a country and starting the long immigration process, it's not an option you have to exercise.
beagle3 9y ago
It is happening simultaneously almost everywhere. Different countries are at different stages, but it doesn't look like anywhere is a safe haven. Having lived in several countries over the years, the grass is rarely greener as a whole - some parts are, and they may matter more to you, but the western world is mostly on par on everything. Where did you think of going?
- fredley 9y ago
  Germany or Holland are contenders. While they may not have a perfect political climate, almost anywhere in the Western world is an improvement on the UK.
  - Havoc 9y ago
    Germany isn't far behind on their monitoring stuff. Not sure about Holland
- ionised 9y ago
  Iceland, if I can learn the language to a sufficient degree.

blibble 9y ago

not as if the same thing is happening in France, Germany or the EU is it? https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/28/german_french_ministers_breaking_encryption/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/28/german_french_minis... sadly it seems as if all security services in nearly all developed countries want this sort of thing, and the UK is simply a few months ahead here

mattrichardson 9y ago
EU are working to prevent it https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/19/eu-outlaw-backdoors-new-data-privacy-proposals-uk-government-encrypted-communications-whatsapp https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/19/eu-outlaw...
- blibble 9y ago
  the Parliament doesn't have any ability to legislate to stop it the governments of the member states (essentially the Council) want it, so it will happen
  - k-mcgrady 9y ago
    Surely it can be stopped by the courts though? They've helped force the UK back slightly on mass surveillance already [0]. I'm sure a challenge will be brought on the basis of freedom of expression (Article 10 ECHR) if any governments move to ban encryption. I mean it's an incredibly obvious impediment to free expression. I know personally if encryption goes I will be self-censoring a hell of a lot more (particularly when it comes to texting more extreme jokes for example). Of course, with the UK leaving the EU and potentially tearing up the Human Rights Act it might not matter but as for the EU having power to stop this in EU member states I think the courts are the most likely solution. [0] https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3245181-C-203-15-amp-C-698-15-Arre-T-En.html https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3245181-C-203-15-amp...
    - gsnedders 9y ago
      Heck, see Malone v. the United Kingdom (ECtHR; 1984), which formed some precedence on the ability to legally do mass surveillance. This isn't new.

zerebubuth 9y ago

> by the time that millennials walk the halls of power, their parents will have signed away all their rights. I don't think this is a generational thing. Governments have always been trying to spy on their citizens since governments have existed. Back in the 1700s, John Wallis and the Rossignols were routinely reading diplomatic letters. Before the invention of the internet, the "Special Investigations Unit" of the Post Office was routinely opening people's letters and copying them to MI5. Even Snowden's revelations simply show that the government continues to pry into everyone's private lives - only the scale of the abuse has been magnified. When so-called "millennials" walk the halls of power, they'll try to spy on their citizens too. Their bogeyman might not be terrorism - that was their parents' bogeyman, and their grandparents' were Communists, their great-grandparents' were Fifth Columnists, etc... It's not clear how to make the situation any better when both major parties in the UK are committed authoritarians whose security policies are dictated by MI5 and GCHQ. The public, "millennials" or not, in the UK seemed quite unmoved by the Snowden revelations, and seem happy for the panopticon to continue.

mdekkers 9y ago

Oh god, I despair of this country. After a decade of conservative I have never been so disillusioned. I feel like I am stuck in a rut or like, I don't belong here. It is a horrible feeling. Deep down I know that the government is stuck in 1740 and by the time that millennials walk the halls of power, their parents will have signed away all their rights. The very last thing I love is my country, that is for sure. Careful now, that sounds alarmingly subversive. You might be a pre-terrorist, and we need to see all your files, have your private encryption keys, and monitor all your communications. You know, because terrorism. Of course, if you'd join the Tories, we can make things easier for you....

Fifer82 9y ago
"We are under attack day and night from people who do not share our liberal values....". In order to combat that threat, lets remove those liberal values.

jff 9y ago

> by the time that millennials walk the halls of power, their parents will have signed away all their rights. It's not as though 'millennials' are so big on rights, take a look at Twitter to see how happy people are to suppress e.g. free speech as long as they're the ones who get to do the suppressing.

zanny 9y ago
This might just reflect on one of the more sinister aspects of democracy. You live life expecting eventually "your people" will take over some day. That generations prior were monolithic and wrong, and that since your own peers share your mindset it must mean people your age are just wiser. Eventually, you realize that you were just in the intellectual minority of a generation that was majority unintellectual. Like every generation pretty much ever. We have just become extremely effective in isolating ourselves from exposure to the real "average". But even online, there is a vast difference between the ignorance of certain sects of Facebook or the comments on a yahoo news story and the trolls on 4chan - the later are still "our" people. Even if they want to abuse their intellectual leanings, they still grew up with that mindset. The average Facebook post or comment on a Fox News or CNN story reflects the broader, more general mindset much better. And the outlook isn't good. For any generation.
- EugeneAZ 9y ago
  IQ qualification for the privilege to vote.
  - zanny 9y ago
    It isn't IQ. It is environmental culture during childhood development. If you grow up in a family that values intellectualism you will probably be intellectual, curious, logical, and skeptical. If you grow up in a family that is hostile to intellectualism, you are more likely to be ignorant and manipulated by emotional falsities as well. The problem is more kids are growing up anti-intellectual than intellectual. IQ has nothing to do with that, intellectuals uplifted civilization from effectively universal anti-intellectualism (at least in Europe) in the 16th century to where we are now. We have the most intellectuals ever now, but that doesn't mean we are close to a majority, and that also means as long as anti-intellectualism is prevalent you need systems of rule by minority (in various forms) to see progress happen.