5 ms·

At some point in the (very) near future, we'll all be forced to realize that the deck is stacked against you if you're black in America. It's just one of those

At some point in the (very) near future, we'll all be forced to realize that the deck is stacked against you if you're black in America. It's just one of those inconvenient truths.

bjpbakker 9y ago
Not just in America I'm afraid. I live in The Netherlands, and see this hppening at large scale against any non-white people. As a white male I feel that all I can do is to share this injustice all I can and hope others will become aware (which so far sadly seems not to really happen).
- the-dude 9y ago
  Which city? As a white male myself I was apprehended this year for no particular reason at all ( Groningen ). Excuse for apprehension: I declinded to show my ID for no reason at all.
  - bjpbakker 9y ago
    > Which city Many times I've seen "public" ID checks in Amsterdam (especially those in subways) targeting just non-white people. > Excuse for apprehension: I declinded to show my ID for no reason at all Yep it becomes more and more a "comply or your guilty" culture. Not going well IMO. If it's sometimes bad for white people, I only try to imagine how horrible it must be for people who are discriminated against (by public authorities) on a daily basis.
    - ensignavenger 9y ago
      Does Amsterdam require citizens to carry ID with them all the time? When I am out around my home town but not driving myself (using public transit, walking, or rding with friends/family) I often don't carry my ID with me. (I am in the US). If asked to show my ID, I couldn't comply even if I wanted to. It seems strange to me to expect people to have their ID with them at all times.
      - logfromblammo 9y ago
        Even US cops get stop-and-identify statutes wrong. They vary by state, but in states that have them, you are only required to identify yourself if you are the suspect of a crime, and stating your name and address is sufficient--a government-issued photo ID card is not required. Fast forward to all those YouTube public-accountability activist taking photographs or video of the local cop shop from a public sidewalk, to be eventually arrested for failure to identify, or trespassing, or jaywalking, or loitering, or vagrancy, or resisting arrest. Knowing who you are and where you live is necessary for the criminal justice system, but the same info may also be used to intimidate those who commit no crimes, but become inconvenient to those in power. Even the act of demanding identification may be intimidating. As such, Netherlands citizens may wish to push back against the state's power to identify anyone at will, for no readily apparent reason. It's bad enough when the law is on your side and the cops overreach anyway; I can't imagine how bad it could be when the cops start to overreach and the law allows them to go even further.
      - the-dude 9y ago
        The Netherlands has schizophrenic identity laws, a classic Dutch compromise ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polder_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polder_model ). The schizo thing : you are not required to carry ID, but you are required to show it upon request. The circumstances in which it can be lawfully requested are somewhat limited. You can be fined for not complying, which I was because I refused to show it.
- baggels 9y ago
  Stop spreading nonsense. There is a tendency amongst millennial Dutchmen (and other Europeans) to absorb American social issues and pretend they are also happening here so they can partake in the "struggle". The Dutch police is as fair, non-aggressive and understaffed as can be. The fact that over 60% of Moroccan young males have been arrested at least once is not the result of a corrupt police force. The fact that Antilleans are 24 times more likely to be suspected of a crime than native Dutchmen can't be brushed off as pure racism. For the statistics to line up with your narrative, there would have to be an equal amount of crime committed by native Dutchmen (and other low-crime ethnic groups) that goes completely unreported and unnoticed, or there would have to be a huge number of innocent non-whites being convicted of crimes that they did not commit. Either conspiracy theory would require the cooperation of an unrealistic number of people.
oxide 9y ago
Not only have I experienced this as a drug...nerd with black friends, but I've even seen a police officer defer blame for a one-hitter found underneath a seat of a car we occupied pinned on the only black occupant, the irony was that it was neither of ours, but the drivers. This happened about 10 years ago in Arizona while I was in high school. As I sat in the back of a police car with my black friend, the officer asked whos pipe it was. Our silence got him automatically assigned blame. I'll never forget the pudgy officer who took in our silence, looked directly at Josiah and said "well, you will probably be blamed for it." He then closed the door and shortly afterwards I was uncuffed and Josiah was taken away on bullshit charges none of us had the balls to take the rap for. The deck is stacked. In my new town with new black friends they cannot believe that police don't even look at the car when I'm driving. Regardless of the occupants or color of the occupants, a car with a handicap plate with a young white man driving is apparently not in the profiling training.
- moretai 9y ago
  I hope Josiah stopped being your friend.
  - tehwebguy 9y ago
    Seriously - OP and their friends are at least half of the damn deck stacked against Josiah!
    - oxide 9y ago
      I'm sorry, but where I come from you don't speak to the police. You don't snitch. End of discussion I'm afraid. Josiah could have said whos it was as well, but we were both silent. The problem is not that friends aren't tattling over a fucking weed pipe, but that officers deferred blame to the black kid and not the white adult or the two white kids. No, we didn't stop being friends over that, in fact we became better friends. Jeez. You guys really think any of us would have told the cops whos pipe it was? I can't help but read your comments as sarcasm because of their ignorance to basic street code. You don't point fingers or speak names, even if you take a bullshit charge. If they deferred blame to me, I'd have quietly gone as well.
BearGoesChirp 9y ago
>At some point in the (very) near future, we'll all be forced to realize that the deck is stacked against you if you're black in America. Why did you pick race instead of gender? The justice system is far more sexist than racist, and if our society won't come to terms with how far the legal system is stacked against men, why would it ever come to terms with how far it is stacked against minorities?
- MichaelGG 9y ago
  True: Police kill men with a 22x bias over women. What justification does anyone have for accepting this, and why can't a similar justification be applied to race?
  - zimpenfish 9y ago
    Because men commit the vast majority of violent crimes in the US and are therefore much more likely to encounter a lethal response from the police?
    - BearGoesChirp 9y ago
      What about the people who make a similar claim concerning race?
      - zimpenfish 9y ago
        From what I remember of arguments in 2015-16, the differential between "% of violent crimes" and "% of people killed by police" for POC is huge - much bigger than the one for purely "male" (which obviously has an overlap anyway.)
- vyhd 9y ago
  Because their comment is talking about race. Why do you feel the need to take attention away from that?
  - 9y ago

At some point in the (very) near future, we'll all be forced to realize that the deck is stacked against you if you're black in America. It's just one of those inconvenient truths.

bjpbakker 9y ago

Not just in America I'm afraid. I live in The Netherlands, and see this hppening at large scale against any non-white people. As a white male I feel that all I can do is to share this injustice all I can and hope others will become aware (which so far sadly seems not to really happen).

the-dude 9y ago
Which city? As a white male myself I was apprehended this year for no particular reason at all ( Groningen ). Excuse for apprehension: I declinded to show my ID for no reason at all.
- bjpbakker 9y ago
  > Which city Many times I've seen "public" ID checks in Amsterdam (especially those in subways) targeting just non-white people. > Excuse for apprehension: I declinded to show my ID for no reason at all Yep it becomes more and more a "comply or your guilty" culture. Not going well IMO. If it's sometimes bad for white people, I only try to imagine how horrible it must be for people who are discriminated against (by public authorities) on a daily basis.
  - ensignavenger 9y ago
    Does Amsterdam require citizens to carry ID with them all the time? When I am out around my home town but not driving myself (using public transit, walking, or rding with friends/family) I often don't carry my ID with me. (I am in the US). If asked to show my ID, I couldn't comply even if I wanted to. It seems strange to me to expect people to have their ID with them at all times.
    - logfromblammo 9y ago
      Even US cops get stop-and-identify statutes wrong. They vary by state, but in states that have them, you are only required to identify yourself if you are the suspect of a crime, and stating your name and address is sufficient--a government-issued photo ID card is not required. Fast forward to all those YouTube public-accountability activist taking photographs or video of the local cop shop from a public sidewalk, to be eventually arrested for failure to identify, or trespassing, or jaywalking, or loitering, or vagrancy, or resisting arrest. Knowing who you are and where you live is necessary for the criminal justice system, but the same info may also be used to intimidate those who commit no crimes, but become inconvenient to those in power. Even the act of demanding identification may be intimidating. As such, Netherlands citizens may wish to push back against the state's power to identify anyone at will, for no readily apparent reason. It's bad enough when the law is on your side and the cops overreach anyway; I can't imagine how bad it could be when the cops start to overreach and the law allows them to go even further.
    - the-dude 9y ago
      The Netherlands has schizophrenic identity laws, a classic Dutch compromise ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polder_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polder_model ). The schizo thing : you are not required to carry ID, but you are required to show it upon request. The circumstances in which it can be lawfully requested are somewhat limited. You can be fined for not complying, which I was because I refused to show it.
baggels 9y ago
Stop spreading nonsense. There is a tendency amongst millennial Dutchmen (and other Europeans) to absorb American social issues and pretend they are also happening here so they can partake in the "struggle". The Dutch police is as fair, non-aggressive and understaffed as can be. The fact that over 60% of Moroccan young males have been arrested at least once is not the result of a corrupt police force. The fact that Antilleans are 24 times more likely to be suspected of a crime than native Dutchmen can't be brushed off as pure racism. For the statistics to line up with your narrative, there would have to be an equal amount of crime committed by native Dutchmen (and other low-crime ethnic groups) that goes completely unreported and unnoticed, or there would have to be a huge number of innocent non-whites being convicted of crimes that they did not commit. Either conspiracy theory would require the cooperation of an unrealistic number of people.

oxide 9y ago

Not only have I experienced this as a drug...nerd with black friends, but I've even seen a police officer defer blame for a one-hitter found underneath a seat of a car we occupied pinned on the only black occupant, the irony was that it was neither of ours, but the drivers. This happened about 10 years ago in Arizona while I was in high school. As I sat in the back of a police car with my black friend, the officer asked whos pipe it was. Our silence got him automatically assigned blame. I'll never forget the pudgy officer who took in our silence, looked directly at Josiah and said "well, you will probably be blamed for it." He then closed the door and shortly afterwards I was uncuffed and Josiah was taken away on bullshit charges none of us had the balls to take the rap for. The deck is stacked. In my new town with new black friends they cannot believe that police don't even look at the car when I'm driving. Regardless of the occupants or color of the occupants, a car with a handicap plate with a young white man driving is apparently not in the profiling training.

moretai 9y ago
I hope Josiah stopped being your friend.
- tehwebguy 9y ago
  Seriously - OP and their friends are at least half of the damn deck stacked against Josiah!
  - oxide 9y ago
    I'm sorry, but where I come from you don't speak to the police. You don't snitch. End of discussion I'm afraid. Josiah could have said whos it was as well, but we were both silent. The problem is not that friends aren't tattling over a fucking weed pipe, but that officers deferred blame to the black kid and not the white adult or the two white kids. No, we didn't stop being friends over that, in fact we became better friends. Jeez. You guys really think any of us would have told the cops whos pipe it was? I can't help but read your comments as sarcasm because of their ignorance to basic street code. You don't point fingers or speak names, even if you take a bullshit charge. If they deferred blame to me, I'd have quietly gone as well.

BearGoesChirp 9y ago

>At some point in the (very) near future, we'll all be forced to realize that the deck is stacked against you if you're black in America. Why did you pick race instead of gender? The justice system is far more sexist than racist, and if our society won't come to terms with how far the legal system is stacked against men, why would it ever come to terms with how far it is stacked against minorities?

MichaelGG 9y ago
True: Police kill men with a 22x bias over women. What justification does anyone have for accepting this, and why can't a similar justification be applied to race?
- zimpenfish 9y ago
  Because men commit the vast majority of violent crimes in the US and are therefore much more likely to encounter a lethal response from the police?
  - BearGoesChirp 9y ago
    What about the people who make a similar claim concerning race?
    - zimpenfish 9y ago
      From what I remember of arguments in 2015-16, the differential between "% of violent crimes" and "% of people killed by police" for POC is huge - much bigger than the one for purely "male" (which obviously has an overlap anyway.)
vyhd 9y ago
Because their comment is talking about race. Why do you feel the need to take attention away from that?
- 9y ago