3 ms·

I'm in the US. I get that on paper unions are good, but I've always heard bad things about them. Recent anecdotes/experience I've encountered: - Factory layoff

I'm in the US. I get that on paper unions are good, but I've always heard bad things about them. Recent anecdotes/experience I've encountered: - Factory layoffs HAD to be done by seniority rather than merit. We knowingly laid off top performers, just because they were newer to the company (due to union contract rules). - Vendors at a tech conference got in trouble for moving their display tables a few feet because that was supposed to be done by union workers. - Promotions and raises strongly tied to seniority, less flexibility.

reustle 9y ago
I see a lot of the seniority stuff in Japan. I have friends who are top performers in their department yet are stuck making copies for hours for their seniors due to their age. Nobody dares to question it.
crdoconnor 9y ago
Can you come up with an objective definition of "merit" that the company can't game in order to fire the most active union members and break the whole thing apart? IME seniority and political patronage is basically how a lot (if not most) companies promote too - under the guise of being purely concerned about objective performance of course.
mugrimm 9y ago
The company has a say in each of these events, it just chooses to not use it. These are the kinds of things that occur in negotiations. The issue is they have to give something to. For example, if you want layoffs performed by merit, you'd need a union board to verify those metrics and agree to them, with the addition of a bonus for those who performed well enough to stay or some stock in the company. Vendors moving stuff is a bit harder because if they break some shit, the union will be forced to cover them by law despite the fact their people had nothing to do with it. They'd probably relax it if their company paid for insurance that covered anyone and everyone doing work on the premises. Promotions and raises can again have more company input but the union would want more money for people who are promoted. They choose not to pay it and deal with the system as is.

reustle 9y ago

I see a lot of the seniority stuff in Japan. I have friends who are top performers in their department yet are stuck making copies for hours for their seniors due to their age. Nobody dares to question it.

crdoconnor 9y ago

Can you come up with an objective definition of "merit" that the company can't game in order to fire the most active union members and break the whole thing apart? IME seniority and political patronage is basically how a lot (if not most) companies promote too - under the guise of being purely concerned about objective performance of course.

mugrimm 9y ago

The company has a say in each of these events, it just chooses to not use it. These are the kinds of things that occur in negotiations. The issue is they have to give something to. For example, if you want layoffs performed by merit, you'd need a union board to verify those metrics and agree to them, with the addition of a bonus for those who performed well enough to stay or some stock in the company. Vendors moving stuff is a bit harder because if they break some shit, the union will be forced to cover them by law despite the fact their people had nothing to do with it. They'd probably relax it if their company paid for insurance that covered anyone and everyone doing work on the premises. Promotions and raises can again have more company input but the union would want more money for people who are promoted. They choose not to pay it and deal with the system as is.