3 ms·

Yes. Now why do we need unions if their mission has been accomplished? Their purpose has been served.

crooked-v 9y ago
You seem to assume that that certain factions (cough, cough, Republicans) won't happily roll back worker protections if unopposed.
lutorm 9y ago
You're right, clearly American workers are doing great. </s>
jackvalentine 9y ago
> Now why do we need unions if their mission has been accomplished? To ensure that those protections are enforced. To ensure those protections aren't rolled back. To advocate for their membership in a changing economy where their work won't remain static for 40 years. Maybe it's because I'm not American but is it really so hard to see why having someone to advocate for the people in the economy is a good thing? After all, companies are just 'capital unions' that advocate for their members.
- DrScump 9y ago
  What makes you think that union leaders advocate primarily for "the people" as opposed to their own best interests?
  - jackvalentine 9y ago
    They often do either. It's up to the members of a union to take sufficient interest in it that there are appropriate and effective governance structures in place - in the same way that it's up to the shareholders of a business to do the same.
    - DrScump 9y ago
      That's like blaming individual voters for misdeeds by legislative bodies. Except that with unions, ballots aren't necessarily secret.
      - jackvalentine 9y ago
        I wasn't aware I was blaming anyone for anything? Organizations of any kind have someone they're supposed to serve - from your neighborhood bowls club to a fortune 500 company. Organizational (corporate) governance is how you make sure the organization is operating for the benefit of its intended recipients. Some organizations do governance well. Some do it badly. When the owners (shareholders, members etc) take their eye off the ball over time that organization will skew towards badly. I don't think this is a controversial statement at all, even when applied to workers' unions.
mugrimm 9y ago
Noted socialist publication Forbes disagrees with your assessment that they've been accomplished, specifically citing Tesla's insanely bad worker safety numbers: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidmarquet/2017/06/04/elon-musk-safety-autopilot/#3c9b54f97a88 https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidmarquet/2017/06/04/elon-mu... Maybe if Musk spent time on his endeavor instead of throwing his time willy nilly in each direction he could have prevented a union. Cest la vive

You seem to assume that that certain factions (cough, cough, Republicans) won't happily roll back worker protections if unopposed.

lutorm 9y ago

You're right, clearly American workers are doing great. </s>

jackvalentine 9y ago

> Now why do we need unions if their mission has been accomplished? To ensure that those protections are enforced. To ensure those protections aren't rolled back. To advocate for their membership in a changing economy where their work won't remain static for 40 years. Maybe it's because I'm not American but is it really so hard to see why having someone to advocate for the people in the economy is a good thing? After all, companies are just 'capital unions' that advocate for their members.

DrScump 9y ago
What makes you think that union leaders advocate primarily for "the people" as opposed to their own best interests?
- jackvalentine 9y ago
  They often do either. It's up to the members of a union to take sufficient interest in it that there are appropriate and effective governance structures in place - in the same way that it's up to the shareholders of a business to do the same.
  - DrScump 9y ago
    That's like blaming individual voters for misdeeds by legislative bodies. Except that with unions, ballots aren't necessarily secret.
    - jackvalentine 9y ago
      I wasn't aware I was blaming anyone for anything? Organizations of any kind have someone they're supposed to serve - from your neighborhood bowls club to a fortune 500 company. Organizational (corporate) governance is how you make sure the organization is operating for the benefit of its intended recipients. Some organizations do governance well. Some do it badly. When the owners (shareholders, members etc) take their eye off the ball over time that organization will skew towards badly. I don't think this is a controversial statement at all, even when applied to workers' unions.

mugrimm 9y ago

Noted socialist publication Forbes disagrees with your assessment that they've been accomplished, specifically citing Tesla's insanely bad worker safety numbers: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidmarquet/2017/06/04/elon-musk-safety-autopilot/#3c9b54f97a88 https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidmarquet/2017/06/04/elon-mu... Maybe if Musk spent time on his endeavor instead of throwing his time willy nilly in each direction he could have prevented a union. Cest la vive