3 ms·

Made an account just to say that I couldn't tell if this post was sarcasm or not. Really? You don't want "...tyranny of the masses demanding ever more pay, bene

Made an account just to say that I couldn't tell if this post was sarcasm or not. Really? You don't want "...tyranny of the masses demanding ever more pay, benefits, etc until a company is bled dry", but you're ok with "..government enforced guarantees of decent treatment."? Strong fucking everything

enknamel 9y ago
Unions ruin nearly every company they touch Government unions are even worse because the government is largely able to support a nearly unlimited budget. Let's not forget that unions are not opt-in or opt-out. If you work in a union shop you are in that union and their dues are automatically taken directly out of your pay. You don't like what your union is doing? Tough luck. Suddenly you need to negotiate with the people who should be on your side and are taking money away from you to fund themselves. Union workers are often doubly screwed by their employers and their unions.
- Frondo 9y ago
  You're being downvoted because this isn't true. No one is ever legally obligated to join a union in the U.S. You may be required to pay dues, since the union affords you protections even if you're not a member, but you'll never be required to join it. It's also not true that "don't like what your union is doing, tough luck". Unions are democratic organizations. Don't like what it's doing? Take your case to your fellow union members, persuade them, and steer the ship to what you do want the union to do. You seem to have a view of unions that is tinged with much of the anti-union lies that have been propagated for decades in this country. (I won't dignify those lies by calling them propaganda.) I doubt a handful of forum posts would convince you to reexamine the things you say that aren't true, but I hope you'll consider the fact that you've been mislead for a long time by very wealthy, powerful, media-savvy people. (Unions are none of these, by the way--not particularly wealthy, nor powerful, and not media-savvy in the slightest.)
  - enknamel 9y ago
    Actually you are wrong. You can be legally obligated to join a union in any non Right to Work state. Unions almost always have a union security clause forcing employers to only accept their members who are in good standing. Unions are also not very democratic. They are democratic in principle but once again fall to the tyranny of the majority. If you are a minority in a union you are completely screwed unless you can trump their demands by using a protected class. Unions have already served their purpose, well their original purpose was racism pure and simple, but their purpose of protecting workers is no longer necessary. Now they exist to only protect themselves.
    - vacri 9y ago
      > well their original purpose was racism pure and simple Exactly how much work-oriented racism was there in 14th century England, when trade unions were first outlawed? Or in industrial age Britain? Stop spreading your crazy FUD.
    - Frondo 9y ago
      The Taft–Hartley Act outlawed the closed shop in the United States in 1947.
  - JoshTriplett 9y ago
    > No one is ever legally obligated to join a union in the U.S. You may be required to pay dues, since the union affords you protections even if you're not a member, but you'll never be required to join it. So you can instead choose to pay money yet have no voice, or choose to not have a job at that company, or in some cases a job in an entire profession when the union has bought legislation to that effect. Great choice. > Take your case to your fellow union members, persuade them, and steer the ship to what you do want the union to do. Sure. And if you can't, then you should be able to stop giving them money if they're going to use it for purposes you oppose. (For clarity: I have no problems with unions; in some cases they've achieved extraordinary things. I do have problems with mandatory union dues/membership, and mandatory unions for entire professions. Voluntary associations are a great thing; involuntary associations are not.)
  - 9y ago
- mugrimm 9y ago
  Are you aware there are entire countries where Unions are practically required for your wages?

enknamel 9y ago

Unions ruin nearly every company they touch Government unions are even worse because the government is largely able to support a nearly unlimited budget. Let's not forget that unions are not opt-in or opt-out. If you work in a union shop you are in that union and their dues are automatically taken directly out of your pay. You don't like what your union is doing? Tough luck. Suddenly you need to negotiate with the people who should be on your side and are taking money away from you to fund themselves. Union workers are often doubly screwed by their employers and their unions.

Frondo 9y ago
You're being downvoted because this isn't true. No one is ever legally obligated to join a union in the U.S. You may be required to pay dues, since the union affords you protections even if you're not a member, but you'll never be required to join it. It's also not true that "don't like what your union is doing, tough luck". Unions are democratic organizations. Don't like what it's doing? Take your case to your fellow union members, persuade them, and steer the ship to what you do want the union to do. You seem to have a view of unions that is tinged with much of the anti-union lies that have been propagated for decades in this country. (I won't dignify those lies by calling them propaganda.) I doubt a handful of forum posts would convince you to reexamine the things you say that aren't true, but I hope you'll consider the fact that you've been mislead for a long time by very wealthy, powerful, media-savvy people. (Unions are none of these, by the way--not particularly wealthy, nor powerful, and not media-savvy in the slightest.)
- enknamel 9y ago
  Actually you are wrong. You can be legally obligated to join a union in any non Right to Work state. Unions almost always have a union security clause forcing employers to only accept their members who are in good standing. Unions are also not very democratic. They are democratic in principle but once again fall to the tyranny of the majority. If you are a minority in a union you are completely screwed unless you can trump their demands by using a protected class. Unions have already served their purpose, well their original purpose was racism pure and simple, but their purpose of protecting workers is no longer necessary. Now they exist to only protect themselves.
  - vacri 9y ago
    > well their original purpose was racism pure and simple Exactly how much work-oriented racism was there in 14th century England, when trade unions were first outlawed? Or in industrial age Britain? Stop spreading your crazy FUD.
  - Frondo 9y ago
    The Taft–Hartley Act outlawed the closed shop in the United States in 1947.
- JoshTriplett 9y ago
  > No one is ever legally obligated to join a union in the U.S. You may be required to pay dues, since the union affords you protections even if you're not a member, but you'll never be required to join it. So you can instead choose to pay money yet have no voice, or choose to not have a job at that company, or in some cases a job in an entire profession when the union has bought legislation to that effect. Great choice. > Take your case to your fellow union members, persuade them, and steer the ship to what you do want the union to do. Sure. And if you can't, then you should be able to stop giving them money if they're going to use it for purposes you oppose. (For clarity: I have no problems with unions; in some cases they've achieved extraordinary things. I do have problems with mandatory union dues/membership, and mandatory unions for entire professions. Voluntary associations are a great thing; involuntary associations are not.)
- 9y ago
mugrimm 9y ago
Are you aware there are entire countries where Unions are practically required for your wages?