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No, it's not going to solve people being assholes. But a shared, write-only and unalterable database of voting transactions created by pseudonymous entities cou

No, it's not going to solve people being assholes. But a shared, write-only and unalterable database of voting transactions created by pseudonymous entities could be an extremely useful tool if we really want to safeguard against this kind of thing. Because of the rhetoric surrounding blockchain spam, it's easy to make the comparison to marxist theory. But I think it's really just a technology, not some grand scheme to alter our economic system. It's more realistic to simply say that it's a tool that could provide some very useful real world applications.

Balgair 9y ago
Look, I know, it's cool, and like, it has the potential to help. But trying to tech/math your way into a better democracy isn't very likely because people are assholes; you have to make incentives for the assholery to fight itself, it's not easy. Hofstader in Godel Escher Bach goes WAY into why that is from a math/physics/art/music point of view, you should read it (maybe you have already), it's like 6 bucks. https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0465026567/ref=tmm_pap_used_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr= https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0465026567/ref=tmm_p... I'm not confounding bitcoins with marxism and that mess of history. I'm just saying that there are things out there that were good in theory, but the applications of the theory are just plain terrible, marxism is a famous example of that.
- andrepd 9y ago
  >But trying to tech/math your way into a better democracy isn't very likely because people are assholes That's ridiculous. So we can't do anything, whatsoever, to improve our society and our systems, because eh people are assholes or whatever? That's nonsense. Of course we can improve our systems, our laws, our government, and of course mathematics and technology can help. For example, our voting systems are woeful because they are holdovers from a time when nobody thought about these things from a mathematical point of view (and nobody still does: "let's just vote for people and let the person with the most votes win" sounds perfectly simple and correct for 99% of the population). But we can do much better, and it can objectively improve our democracy a whole lot. Will applying mathematics and technology to democracy fundamentally change and transcend human nature? Duh, of course not, but nobody claimed it will. There's plenty between implementing an utopia and going nothing at all.
  - Balgair 9y ago
    > So we can't do anything, whatsoever, to improve our society and our systems, because eh people are assholes or whatever? Yes, that is correct. Also, me and Mr. Strawman could use some more hay, do you have any? > ...and nobody still does... This is what I'm talking about. Trying to force math/tech onto a democracy/republic where the voting population doesn't understand it cannot end well. The voter will be suspicious, and rightfully so, of the process if they do not understand it. This is especially true if there is any corruption in the system at all. Since we know men are not angels, then the vast majority of voters must have belief in the processes as we all know men do become devils. Democracy demands this faith to work. Yes, we can make the system mathematically better, but if that comes at the cost of the faith in democracy, then it's mute. Even with the system we have now, simple as it is, there is already a large lack of faith in it by a lot of the US, and this is already a threat to idea of self-determination.

Balgair 9y ago

Look, I know, it's cool, and like, it has the potential to help. But trying to tech/math your way into a better democracy isn't very likely because people are assholes; you have to make incentives for the assholery to fight itself, it's not easy. Hofstader in Godel Escher Bach goes WAY into why that is from a math/physics/art/music point of view, you should read it (maybe you have already), it's like 6 bucks. https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0465026567/ref=tmm_pap_used_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr= https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0465026567/ref=tmm_p... I'm not confounding bitcoins with marxism and that mess of history. I'm just saying that there are things out there that were good in theory, but the applications of the theory are just plain terrible, marxism is a famous example of that.

andrepd 9y ago
>But trying to tech/math your way into a better democracy isn't very likely because people are assholes That's ridiculous. So we can't do anything, whatsoever, to improve our society and our systems, because eh people are assholes or whatever? That's nonsense. Of course we can improve our systems, our laws, our government, and of course mathematics and technology can help. For example, our voting systems are woeful because they are holdovers from a time when nobody thought about these things from a mathematical point of view (and nobody still does: "let's just vote for people and let the person with the most votes win" sounds perfectly simple and correct for 99% of the population). But we can do much better, and it can objectively improve our democracy a whole lot. Will applying mathematics and technology to democracy fundamentally change and transcend human nature? Duh, of course not, but nobody claimed it will. There's plenty between implementing an utopia and going nothing at all.
- Balgair 9y ago
  > So we can't do anything, whatsoever, to improve our society and our systems, because eh people are assholes or whatever? Yes, that is correct. Also, me and Mr. Strawman could use some more hay, do you have any? > ...and nobody still does... This is what I'm talking about. Trying to force math/tech onto a democracy/republic where the voting population doesn't understand it cannot end well. The voter will be suspicious, and rightfully so, of the process if they do not understand it. This is especially true if there is any corruption in the system at all. Since we know men are not angels, then the vast majority of voters must have belief in the processes as we all know men do become devils. Democracy demands this faith to work. Yes, we can make the system mathematically better, but if that comes at the cost of the faith in democracy, then it's mute. Even with the system we have now, simple as it is, there is already a large lack of faith in it by a lot of the US, and this is already a threat to idea of self-determination.