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> The page you mention says he's a libertarian and I see nothing there that would indicate Thiel is on the far right I see you are London-based, so it should b

> The page you mention says he's a libertarian and I see nothing there that would indicate Thiel is on the far right I see you are London-based, so it should be clarified that we are talking about American libertarianism. Your comment is difficult to parse in that context, as libertarians embrace far-right views here. The angle from which they arrive on those views is what defines them.

AlexB138 9y ago
> libertarians embrace far-right views here This is pretty far from being an absolute. You likely mean Libertarians, as in the Libertarian party, not libertarians in general. There are plenty of left leaning American libertarians, myself included. The Libertarian party has some weird ideas, but I would caution against conflating them with the extreme right. Libertarian is a value on a different political axis to left/right, and is counter to authoritarian.
- albedoa 9y ago
  I agree with you on all points. My main objection is against the claim that one cannot be far-right if he does not embrace political violence, despite all his other views. nailer is saying that Thiel cannot be far-right because he identifies as a libertarian, but it's Thiel's far-right views that would make him far-right, not his identity as a libertarian.
  - nailer 9y ago
    > My main objection is against the claim that one cannot be far-right if he does not embrace political violence I haven't seen anything you post refute that point. Look at the examples given at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics - you'll see the KKK, EDL, Patriots of Ukraine, Blackshirts, etc - the common thread of these groups is their use of violence. > Thiel's far-right views that would make him far-right Thiel's views are fairly common libertarian / conservative views. The far right, is by nature, further to the right of regular right wing views.
- yellowapple 9y ago
  "You likely mean Libertarians, as in the Libertarian party, not libertarians in general." Even the Libertarian Party (in the US) is not necessarily "far-right". Libertarianism in general almost always leans heavily left on social issues by definition of libertarianism, and the Libertarian Party line is no exception AFAICT. This leaves the economic issues, and the full spectrum from anarcho-capitalists to socialist libertarians tends to identify with the Libertarian Party. Gary Johnson was/is somewhere in the middle-right, I'd guess.
nailer 9y ago
I am also talking about American libertarianism, i.e. what's discussed on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism. I don't see any mainstream source that equates libertarianism with the far right - indeed, the far right (like the far left) embraces governmental authority over individuals, which libertarianism expressly rejects.
- albedoa 9y ago
  You keep linking to that page, but it doesn't seem like you are reading it. You are defining "far-right" to require the embrace of government authority, but as that page and the linked "Libertarianism in the United States" page[1] demonstrate, that is not a requirement. For instance, the Tea Party purport to be anti-government and are considered to be "far-right", yet over 40% of them also identify as libertarian. You've artificially constrained your definition to disqualify any counterexamples that Thiel has to support political violence to be "far-right". 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism_in_the_United_S...
  - nailer 9y ago
    > You keep linking to that page I've only linked to that page once. What part of it aren't I reading? The Libertarianism page doesn't discuss requirements to be in the far right at all. Why would it? > Tea Party are considered to be "far-right" By whom? The other page I linked to was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics. The Tea Party is very different from the groups that you see discussed there - eg the KKK, Blackshirts, EDL, etc. Edit: the only mention of the Tea Party on that page is: > the term hard right and Alt-right have been used to describe groups such as the Tea Party movement and the Patriot movement.[17][18] Which is true, but doesn't support your argument. The vast majority of groups mentioned are violent groups, the term (and a completely unrelated term) being used to describe one non-violent group doesn't prove your point.
    - albedoa 9y ago

AlexB138 9y ago

> libertarians embrace far-right views here This is pretty far from being an absolute. You likely mean Libertarians, as in the Libertarian party, not libertarians in general. There are plenty of left leaning American libertarians, myself included. The Libertarian party has some weird ideas, but I would caution against conflating them with the extreme right. Libertarian is a value on a different political axis to left/right, and is counter to authoritarian.

albedoa 9y ago
I agree with you on all points. My main objection is against the claim that one cannot be far-right if he does not embrace political violence, despite all his other views. nailer is saying that Thiel cannot be far-right because he identifies as a libertarian, but it's Thiel's far-right views that would make him far-right, not his identity as a libertarian.
- nailer 9y ago
  > My main objection is against the claim that one cannot be far-right if he does not embrace political violence I haven't seen anything you post refute that point. Look at the examples given at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics - you'll see the KKK, EDL, Patriots of Ukraine, Blackshirts, etc - the common thread of these groups is their use of violence. > Thiel's far-right views that would make him far-right Thiel's views are fairly common libertarian / conservative views. The far right, is by nature, further to the right of regular right wing views.
yellowapple 9y ago
"You likely mean Libertarians, as in the Libertarian party, not libertarians in general." Even the Libertarian Party (in the US) is not necessarily "far-right". Libertarianism in general almost always leans heavily left on social issues by definition of libertarianism, and the Libertarian Party line is no exception AFAICT. This leaves the economic issues, and the full spectrum from anarcho-capitalists to socialist libertarians tends to identify with the Libertarian Party. Gary Johnson was/is somewhere in the middle-right, I'd guess.

nailer 9y ago

I am also talking about American libertarianism, i.e. what's discussed on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism. I don't see any mainstream source that equates libertarianism with the far right - indeed, the far right (like the far left) embraces governmental authority over individuals, which libertarianism expressly rejects.

albedoa 9y ago
You keep linking to that page, but it doesn't seem like you are reading it. You are defining "far-right" to require the embrace of government authority, but as that page and the linked "Libertarianism in the United States" page[1] demonstrate, that is not a requirement. For instance, the Tea Party purport to be anti-government and are considered to be "far-right", yet over 40% of them also identify as libertarian. You've artificially constrained your definition to disqualify any counterexamples that Thiel has to support political violence to be "far-right". 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism_in_the_United_S...
- nailer 9y ago
  > You keep linking to that page I've only linked to that page once. What part of it aren't I reading? The Libertarianism page doesn't discuss requirements to be in the far right at all. Why would it? > Tea Party are considered to be "far-right" By whom? The other page I linked to was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics. The Tea Party is very different from the groups that you see discussed there - eg the KKK, Blackshirts, EDL, etc. Edit: the only mention of the Tea Party on that page is: > the term hard right and Alt-right have been used to describe groups such as the Tea Party movement and the Patriot movement.[17][18] Which is true, but doesn't support your argument. The vast majority of groups mentioned are violent groups, the term (and a completely unrelated term) being used to describe one non-violent group doesn't prove your point.
  - albedoa 9y ago