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Based on the definition you provided, it seems fairly obvious to me based on how I interpret that definition. "acting in a particular manner" = leaving the chi

Based on the definition you provided, it seems fairly obvious to me based on how I interpret that definition. "acting in a particular manner" = leaving the child in the car, that is the act. "foreseeable outcome" = death. "reasonable care to avoid consequences" = anything that the parent could easily do which would prevent the foreseeable outcome. There are a few things parents can do, and could even combine them. And let's be honest, all are very, very simple. A quick look where you actually lean back and physically see inside the car seat to verify it's empty is enough. That literally takes 2 seconds and about as minimal of an effort as I can think of and it's 100% accurate in prevention, so long as you work it into your routine when exiting a vehicle. For example, I have a system of making sure I never forget any important item that I regularly carry with me anywhere (key, wallet, phone, etc.) The details aren't important and could be considered specific to me, maybe. But it works 100% of the time and I never forget to mentally check for it. I also have never forgotten/lost any of the items I check for in about 12-15 years (since I started using it). And make no mistake - I'm not doing this because I'm naturally organized. I do because I an not. I'm scatterbrained and forget things all the time. My system is designed to ensure that I don't forget anything critically important like, oh I dunno, my kid in a car in the blazing heat. Same for the front/backovers. I've had my kid do both of these. The rule on my side is simple. The car doesn't move if I don't have eyes on my child. If I can't visually confirm my kid's location, I assume they are in one of these spots and the car stays in park and then I mildly panic until I can locate them again. Only then does the car move. How is any of this hard for people to make into a habit? This is entirely avoidable in every single case, but it requires creating unbreakable habits for yourself.

coding123 9y ago
Clone your self by 300 million and tell me you won't forget the keys over a period of 20 years one time. I'm not sure all 300 million us adults subscribe to your newsletter. 'forget things all the time' - so you admit there is a chance 100 percent can drop to 99.9999? A friend of a friend had their child eat a battery that was left lying around in the house, I'm pretty sure there are a million other potential killer forgetful actions that parents face.
- turc1656 9y ago
  Eating a battery is not a reasonably foreseeable event that would occur with a high probability. It's something that can happen, sure. But doesn't happen that often even when they are left around. So I don't think anyone should be charged in that case. You can't protect against everything. But it's really easy to protect against leaving your kid in the car. And since that carries an extremely high probability of serious injury or death, people should be mindful about it and try to do whatever they need to in order for it to never happen. It boils down to risk and statistics. There are 100 ways your kid can kill themselves in your house every day. They could stick something metallic into an outlet and electrocute themselves or knock into something and a heavy object falls on them. You can't know that any of those things will happen at the moment they do, but you do know what is likely to happen if you forget your child in the car on a hot day. The cause and effect are proximate and immediate. That's why there should be culpability. It should be no different than how we prosecute the most serious errors on the road such as drunk driving that leads to a serious, possibly fatal accident or whether it's just someone who wasn't paying attention or was very tired and accidentally hit someone. We generally, but not always, charge those individuals. The prosecutors look at the evidence and if a driver made a serious/negligent mistake, they charge them. If the circumstances were one of happenstance and not a clear fault, then charges are usually not levied. Same logic should apply here. Yeah I said I forget things all the time but the things I forget are NOT part of the system I have in place. That's the point. The habits I have are to make sure I don't forget the things I really care about or absolutely need. So no, it will not be 99.9999% for those items - it will be 100%. In fact, my habits have caught me forgetting the things on the list literally hundreds of times over the past decade. It works and it always catches it.
erikpukinskis 9y ago
> it's 100% accurate in prevention, so long as you work it into your routine when exiting a vehicle Your fallacy, because you are apparently a person who is good at teaching themselves new routines based on safety statistics, is assuming that is a general skill that everyone has and that everyone could be expected to have. If you're actually interested in preventing child deaths, and not just moralizing, the proper thing to do is treat this as a public health issue, and understand that not every parent has the same emotional and cognitive facilities as you do.

coding123 9y ago

Clone your self by 300 million and tell me you won't forget the keys over a period of 20 years one time. I'm not sure all 300 million us adults subscribe to your newsletter. 'forget things all the time' - so you admit there is a chance 100 percent can drop to 99.9999? A friend of a friend had their child eat a battery that was left lying around in the house, I'm pretty sure there are a million other potential killer forgetful actions that parents face.

turc1656 9y ago
Eating a battery is not a reasonably foreseeable event that would occur with a high probability. It's something that can happen, sure. But doesn't happen that often even when they are left around. So I don't think anyone should be charged in that case. You can't protect against everything. But it's really easy to protect against leaving your kid in the car. And since that carries an extremely high probability of serious injury or death, people should be mindful about it and try to do whatever they need to in order for it to never happen. It boils down to risk and statistics. There are 100 ways your kid can kill themselves in your house every day. They could stick something metallic into an outlet and electrocute themselves or knock into something and a heavy object falls on them. You can't know that any of those things will happen at the moment they do, but you do know what is likely to happen if you forget your child in the car on a hot day. The cause and effect are proximate and immediate. That's why there should be culpability. It should be no different than how we prosecute the most serious errors on the road such as drunk driving that leads to a serious, possibly fatal accident or whether it's just someone who wasn't paying attention or was very tired and accidentally hit someone. We generally, but not always, charge those individuals. The prosecutors look at the evidence and if a driver made a serious/negligent mistake, they charge them. If the circumstances were one of happenstance and not a clear fault, then charges are usually not levied. Same logic should apply here. Yeah I said I forget things all the time but the things I forget are NOT part of the system I have in place. That's the point. The habits I have are to make sure I don't forget the things I really care about or absolutely need. So no, it will not be 99.9999% for those items - it will be 100%. In fact, my habits have caught me forgetting the things on the list literally hundreds of times over the past decade. It works and it always catches it.

erikpukinskis 9y ago

> it's 100% accurate in prevention, so long as you work it into your routine when exiting a vehicle Your fallacy, because you are apparently a person who is good at teaching themselves new routines based on safety statistics, is assuming that is a general skill that everyone has and that everyone could be expected to have. If you're actually interested in preventing child deaths, and not just moralizing, the proper thing to do is treat this as a public health issue, and understand that not every parent has the same emotional and cognitive facilities as you do.