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TL;DR: I don't mean to be rude, but pretty much everything falls into assuming things that have nothing to do with the point I'm making. You can decide that you

TL;DR: I don't mean to be rude, but pretty much everything falls into assuming things that have nothing to do with the point I'm making. You can decide that you have more valuable things to do with your time without any of the other things associated with the poorly-sketched cartoon characters you seem to think people with disposable income are. > There's a concept called the "hedonistic treadmill", where increasingly expensive and intense thrills are never enough for the people who can afford them. I would argue some people I know are stuck on that. If you can go to the beach you can't go to the nice northern beach, if you can do that you can't do Miami, Miami leads to Thailand, and so on. You're mixing up two completely different concepts. I know people who are at full-speed on the hedonic treadmill who don't fit what I'm talking about, and plenty of people who fit what I am talking about who have nothing to do with the hedonic treadmill. I probably fit the concept I'm describing more than anyone I know, and here are a list of some of the cheapest things taking up my time these days, along with the weekly cost: 1) playing and writing music - less than $2/wk[1] 2) learning another language - free 3) reading all kinds of reference/nonfiction/fiction books - free/extremely cheap (library + used books + exchanging with friends) 4) Playing sports, weightlifting, running in the park or along the water - free + $15/wk gym membership + free 5) Hiking - free if you have a car, or $70/hike I don't intend this in an insulting way, but is it possible that you're falling prey to the typical-mind fallacy and assuming that things are universal when they're really just facets of your personality (and perhaps your circles)? > It's weird to see so many super wealthy people dedicating so much time to super luxurious forms of meditation with gurus, wearing white spandex or whatever, when one can achieve a pretty solid trance-like state and think about their day while doing rote mechanical chores like cleaning and cooking. Seriously, it sounds like you get your perception of people who pay for menial services from cartoons and Gawker blogs. I like cooking, but I don't find any other menial tasks to be enjoyable: I pay to have my laundry done and for my house to be cleaned, and Uber when I don't have time to take transit (even though I prefer the subway). I also have an 80% savings rate, most of my hobbies cost ~$0 [1] I have a $400 piano and a $300 guitar, both of which I've had for 7 years, so 700/(52*7.5)

wutbrodo 9y ago
It's too late to edit, but I should note that I don't think there's _zero_ merit to the pint you're trying to make. I just think that you're generalizing too wildly. Doing things you don't want to do can be an important part of one's character. I just think limiting yourself to those specific tasks is an incredibly narrow view of humans and human potential. Practicing music isn't always fun, studying things sometimes feels like work, getting myself up and out on a run can feel like a chore, etc etc. All of those are in service of a larger goal, much as cleaning is in service of the goal of having a clean living space. I just don't see the case that cleaning, etc are somehow inherently required parts of the human experience (and yet somehow growing your own food and digging holes for your poo isn't).
- RodericDay 9y ago
  You may like this article: https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/06/against-domesticity https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/06/against-domesticity
RodericDay 9y ago
There's no misunderstandings on my part, bringing up the "hedonic treadmill" (with all the "I need to work longer to afford/spend more time on my hobby" that it entails) was fully intended and not confused in the least bit. In my posts I've related what I've observed living in Peru and Canada. You seem to have a problem with my observations because they make you feel bad and you feel alluded to. This isn't my problem, if you feel like it doesn't apply to you and your circles, you do you. I know people that fit those cartoonish stereotypes. It's not meant to be a statistical overview, just a possible trend Canadians could be sliding into. I also do not understand at all that little hobby list you made. I could make a similar one, as a Japanese learner boxer who likes board games, reading, and hiking. I still find time to cook and clean. I get my perception of people who pay for menial services from people I know who pay for menial services. So do many journalists, probably. If you feel this doesn't apply to you, just skip along.
- wutbrodo 9y ago
  > You seem to have a problem with my observations because they make you feel bad and you feel alluded to. This isn't my problem, if you feel like it doesn't apply to you and your circles, you do you. I know people that fit those cartoonish stereotypes. It's not meant to be a statistical overview, just a possible trend Canadians could be sliding into. It's not a personal reaction as much as the fact that you're overgeneralizing enough that it changes your fundamental point; upon that being pointed out, you basically changed the subject to multiple unrelated things. > In my posts I've related what I've observed living in Peru and Canada. I'm sorry, but this claim that you're only speaking of what you've observed where you are is bullshit. In your last comment, you claim that Silicon Valley as "an assisted-living community for people in their 20s funded by venture capital" is an apt descriptor. This is exactly the kind of overgeneralizing I'm talking about, and suddenly hiding behind "no no I'm just talking about the people I've seen in my part of Canada" is in direct contradiction. You're just over-extrapolating your own personality and those of your acquaintances to a region a thousand miles away. This isn't just pedantry; your point changes pretty substantially when you change from claiming that this reaction to increased leisure time is widespread vs a potential pitfall. Your assertion that you can't wait for this "craze" to end only further contradicts your newly-narrow claim that you're only observing a possible pitfall. > I also do not understand at all that little hobby list you made. I could make a similar one, as a Japanese learner boxer who likes board games, reading, and hiking. I still find time to cook and clean. If you're having this much trouble following the conversation, I don't see the point in continuing. The point of this (incomplete) list was to help you through your bizarre confusion between the entirely-unrelated concepts of the hedonic treadmill and having more leisure time (which is why I put the dollar costs next to each activity). It's great for you that you've reached the boundary of interesting things to do with your free time, but it's pretty odd to look down on those who have found more things that interest them. My list wasn't even close to complete; it just consisted of a sample of my cheapest hobbies since that's the point I was trying to make.

wutbrodo 9y ago

It's too late to edit, but I should note that I don't think there's _zero_ merit to the pint you're trying to make. I just think that you're generalizing too wildly. Doing things you don't want to do can be an important part of one's character. I just think limiting yourself to those specific tasks is an incredibly narrow view of humans and human potential. Practicing music isn't always fun, studying things sometimes feels like work, getting myself up and out on a run can feel like a chore, etc etc. All of those are in service of a larger goal, much as cleaning is in service of the goal of having a clean living space. I just don't see the case that cleaning, etc are somehow inherently required parts of the human experience (and yet somehow growing your own food and digging holes for your poo isn't).

RodericDay 9y ago
You may like this article: https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/06/against-domesticity https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/06/against-domesticity

RodericDay 9y ago

There's no misunderstandings on my part, bringing up the "hedonic treadmill" (with all the "I need to work longer to afford/spend more time on my hobby" that it entails) was fully intended and not confused in the least bit. In my posts I've related what I've observed living in Peru and Canada. You seem to have a problem with my observations because they make you feel bad and you feel alluded to. This isn't my problem, if you feel like it doesn't apply to you and your circles, you do you. I know people that fit those cartoonish stereotypes. It's not meant to be a statistical overview, just a possible trend Canadians could be sliding into. I also do not understand at all that little hobby list you made. I could make a similar one, as a Japanese learner boxer who likes board games, reading, and hiking. I still find time to cook and clean. I get my perception of people who pay for menial services from people I know who pay for menial services. So do many journalists, probably. If you feel this doesn't apply to you, just skip along.

wutbrodo 9y ago
> You seem to have a problem with my observations because they make you feel bad and you feel alluded to. This isn't my problem, if you feel like it doesn't apply to you and your circles, you do you. I know people that fit those cartoonish stereotypes. It's not meant to be a statistical overview, just a possible trend Canadians could be sliding into. It's not a personal reaction as much as the fact that you're overgeneralizing enough that it changes your fundamental point; upon that being pointed out, you basically changed the subject to multiple unrelated things. > In my posts I've related what I've observed living in Peru and Canada. I'm sorry, but this claim that you're only speaking of what you've observed where you are is bullshit. In your last comment, you claim that Silicon Valley as "an assisted-living community for people in their 20s funded by venture capital" is an apt descriptor. This is exactly the kind of overgeneralizing I'm talking about, and suddenly hiding behind "no no I'm just talking about the people I've seen in my part of Canada" is in direct contradiction. You're just over-extrapolating your own personality and those of your acquaintances to a region a thousand miles away. This isn't just pedantry; your point changes pretty substantially when you change from claiming that this reaction to increased leisure time is widespread vs a potential pitfall. Your assertion that you can't wait for this "craze" to end only further contradicts your newly-narrow claim that you're only observing a possible pitfall. > I also do not understand at all that little hobby list you made. I could make a similar one, as a Japanese learner boxer who likes board games, reading, and hiking. I still find time to cook and clean. If you're having this much trouble following the conversation, I don't see the point in continuing. The point of this (incomplete) list was to help you through your bizarre confusion between the entirely-unrelated concepts of the hedonic treadmill and having more leisure time (which is why I put the dollar costs next to each activity). It's great for you that you've reached the boundary of interesting things to do with your free time, but it's pretty odd to look down on those who have found more things that interest them. My list wasn't even close to complete; it just consisted of a sample of my cheapest hobbies since that's the point I was trying to make.