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Maybe there are people who would be happier washing their clothes by hand, but I'm sure they're the exception rather than the rule. Most people just don't like

Maybe there are people who would be happier washing their clothes by hand, but I'm sure they're the exception rather than the rule. Most people just don't like doing the shopping, cooking, and cleaning involved with daily meal preparation. Most people also don't like cleaning in general, and hate their commutes. Thinking of these as therapeutic tasks is as much a luxury of white collar life as unlimited access to maids and food delivery services is. And the idea that you'd save time or money with proper knowledge of how to source and prep your own fruits and vegetables, or that time spent cleaning disappears because you consider it exercise, all seems like magical thinking to me. As soon as you place a realistic dollar figure on the value of your time, for most of us, all of those calculations break down dramatically in favor of outsourcing most tasks related to food, cleaning, and transportation, not only as a matter of comfort, but also as a matter of economics. It makes sense that it would work out this way, too. A single Uber driver with a single car can satisfy the transportation needs of a dozen people. An Instacart shopper can gather everything 3 families need in a single pass through the store. The driver can get those groceries to 3 homes in a single round trip instead of 3 separate round trips. Outsourcing can seem wasteful and opulent, but in doing so you're often participating in a sharing economy or benefiting from economies of scale and division of labor that actually serve to reduce waste and inefficiency.

Retric 9y ago
You are assuming the value of time spent on these activities is inherently negative therefore having someone else do them is a net gain. I disagree, you can enjoy them in poverty or as a billionaire. While say playing video games seems more enjoyable than taking out the trash that's a subjective assessment. And you can alter your subjective perceptions.
- Deregibus 9y ago
  You are assuming the value of time spent on these activities is inherently positive. If you like cooking or cleaning or taking out the trash then by all means you should do those things. But, if you don't like doing those things then the threshold for when it makes sense to pay someone else to do them is lower than most would think.
  - remline 9y ago
    That is their theory, but I see a lot of trouble in their analysis. A different take on their data is: Not doing things is becoming ignorant and in the short term ignorance of the negatives in life is bliss. In the longterm, not knowing how to do the things that are happening so you can survive is a larger stress for people. Consequently, people are happy when they are choosing to outsource, but it does not last and they choose to cycle back. The noveau rich outsource willingly and the other rich outsource more reluctantly as they are more familiar with the eventual costs of short term stress reduction.
  - Retric 9y ago
    I am arguing it's not not inherently positive or negative, but you can become someone that views it as a negative or a positive. Many people enjoy walking as a time for reflection and to de-stress. Other types of repetitive motion like folding clothing can fill the same void. However a big part of this is simply how much space your keeping up. An efficiency can be kept clean though habitat, a 1,000 acre estate takes a staff. PS: That's not to say having groceries delivered is a bad idea, just maximum productivity is simply a wasteful goal.
- nickik 9y ago
  Yes, it is subjective but for most people cleaning toilets is not enjoyable and thus it makes sense to outsource it.
anigbrowl 9y ago
This assumes all quality can be expressed on a single scale of economic utility, which is an absurd premise.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  It can, and has to, if you want to compare different qualities. That's kind of the whole point of putting a dollar figure on something.
  - anigbrowl 9y ago
    And more and more we're finding that that is a terrible basis for policy making, because it's only as good as our ability to quantify things. How much is the love of someone's parents worth, for example? Why can't you buy your dog's affection with money? Putting a dollar figure on everything is a terrible way to organize society.
ranit 9y ago
How do you save time outsourcing transportation?
- cromd 9y ago
  I assume they're saying it's hard to read, type, etc while driving.
- kkleindev 9y ago
  By reading a book while in an uber
  - paganel 9y ago
    I know it has been the fancy thing to say for at least the past 2-3 years, but I for myself get car-sickness at even the thought of reading in a car. I do not get any car sickness while riding the tramway or the trolleybus (even though I have to stand up). The billions of dollars spent on companies like Uber would have been much better spent trying to raise awareness about the benefits of public transport.
    - seanp2k2 9y ago
      This is our state of the art for public transit in the US: https://ny.curbed.com/2017/6/14/15801694/mta-nyc-subway-delays-twitter https://ny.curbed.com/2017/6/14/15801694/mta-nyc-subway-dela... I still try to take public transit when I travel (Chicago is pretty good and Portland is OK when it goes close to where you want. Bay Area doesn't have enough tendrils to get you within a few miles of where you want to go unless you're in SF proper, and half my friends refuse to ride Muni even though it's totally fine compared to SMART busses in Detroit) but it's hard to convince most people that the train or the bus could ever be not disgusting and filled with people who exist to make your life miserable.
      - posterboy 9y ago
        darn that's pessimistic
maxwin 9y ago
Very well said. The parent is living in a bubble. If you are a retired millionaire or financially well off, doing those mundane tasks might be fun. Just like people paying to go to gym to spend energy. It won't be fun to spend energy for doing hard labor because you need to put food on the table.

Retric 9y ago

You are assuming the value of time spent on these activities is inherently negative therefore having someone else do them is a net gain. I disagree, you can enjoy them in poverty or as a billionaire. While say playing video games seems more enjoyable than taking out the trash that's a subjective assessment. And you can alter your subjective perceptions.

Deregibus 9y ago
You are assuming the value of time spent on these activities is inherently positive. If you like cooking or cleaning or taking out the trash then by all means you should do those things. But, if you don't like doing those things then the threshold for when it makes sense to pay someone else to do them is lower than most would think.
- remline 9y ago
  That is their theory, but I see a lot of trouble in their analysis. A different take on their data is: Not doing things is becoming ignorant and in the short term ignorance of the negatives in life is bliss. In the longterm, not knowing how to do the things that are happening so you can survive is a larger stress for people. Consequently, people are happy when they are choosing to outsource, but it does not last and they choose to cycle back. The noveau rich outsource willingly and the other rich outsource more reluctantly as they are more familiar with the eventual costs of short term stress reduction.
- Retric 9y ago
  I am arguing it's not not inherently positive or negative, but you can become someone that views it as a negative or a positive. Many people enjoy walking as a time for reflection and to de-stress. Other types of repetitive motion like folding clothing can fill the same void. However a big part of this is simply how much space your keeping up. An efficiency can be kept clean though habitat, a 1,000 acre estate takes a staff. PS: That's not to say having groceries delivered is a bad idea, just maximum productivity is simply a wasteful goal.
nickik 9y ago
Yes, it is subjective but for most people cleaning toilets is not enjoyable and thus it makes sense to outsource it.

anigbrowl 9y ago

This assumes all quality can be expressed on a single scale of economic utility, which is an absurd premise.

TeMPOraL 9y ago
It can, and has to, if you want to compare different qualities. That's kind of the whole point of putting a dollar figure on something.
- anigbrowl 9y ago
  And more and more we're finding that that is a terrible basis for policy making, because it's only as good as our ability to quantify things. How much is the love of someone's parents worth, for example? Why can't you buy your dog's affection with money? Putting a dollar figure on everything is a terrible way to organize society.

ranit 9y ago

How do you save time outsourcing transportation?

cromd 9y ago
I assume they're saying it's hard to read, type, etc while driving.
kkleindev 9y ago
By reading a book while in an uber
- paganel 9y ago
  I know it has been the fancy thing to say for at least the past 2-3 years, but I for myself get car-sickness at even the thought of reading in a car. I do not get any car sickness while riding the tramway or the trolleybus (even though I have to stand up). The billions of dollars spent on companies like Uber would have been much better spent trying to raise awareness about the benefits of public transport.
  - seanp2k2 9y ago
    This is our state of the art for public transit in the US: https://ny.curbed.com/2017/6/14/15801694/mta-nyc-subway-delays-twitter https://ny.curbed.com/2017/6/14/15801694/mta-nyc-subway-dela... I still try to take public transit when I travel (Chicago is pretty good and Portland is OK when it goes close to where you want. Bay Area doesn't have enough tendrils to get you within a few miles of where you want to go unless you're in SF proper, and half my friends refuse to ride Muni even though it's totally fine compared to SMART busses in Detroit) but it's hard to convince most people that the train or the bus could ever be not disgusting and filled with people who exist to make your life miserable.
    - posterboy 9y ago
      darn that's pessimistic

maxwin 9y ago

Very well said. The parent is living in a bubble. If you are a retired millionaire or financially well off, doing those mundane tasks might be fun. Just like people paying to go to gym to spend energy. It won't be fun to spend energy for doing hard labor because you need to put food on the table.