5 ms·

Definitely: the software for running World of Warcraft private servers, also known as MaNGOS. Founded and released that in 2005, got so much trouble because of

Definitely: the software for running World of Warcraft private servers, also known as MaNGOS. Founded and released that in 2005, got so much trouble because of that and wasted loads of cash to keep up project through numerous DDoS attacks, hacks (one of them even causing github downtime in 2013). oh well. Next :-)

tokenizerrr 9y ago
But did you regret making it open source, or doing it at all? Wouldn't most of those issues have still occurred had you kept the source closed, but ran such a server?
- marenkay 9y ago
  Definitely the open source part, as most of the issues were results of open sourcing it. This comes down to two parts being problematic: - we took away business from private servers as there was now an open source solution - applying the open source community model on the private server scene was a disaster. It was to idealistic. In hindsight, the open source part was basically painting a target on us. As an example: private servers running mostly use MaNGOS (there is not much else to use) and pretend to have built their own software and advertise by bashing MaNGOS.
  - tokenizerrr 9y ago
    Interesting! Could you give some more examples?
    - marenkay 9y ago
      Of course. Remember that huge buzz about how Blizzard should offer servers running older expansions that was headed by a private server named Nostalrius? Well, those guys used MaNGOS source code with just a few bug fixes, and snatched an invite to Blizzard: http://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44218 http://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44218 In the end, the sources went public and it appears they were using a five year old MaNGOS codebase and not the famed "own codebase". A repeating pattern ever since 2005.
      - Omniusaspirer 9y ago
        While they certainly did use Mangos, it is worth pointing out for the less informed that they did a lot more than "a few bugfixes". If you compare the current Elysium core (taken from Nostalrius and opensourced) and the stock MaNGOS that existed at the time of Nostalrius launch there's absolutely no comparison- let alone if you compared 2005 MaNGOS as released by marenkay and what we have today after over 10 years of open source development from thousands of contributors. All of that said, myself and millions of others who have enjoyed classic servers over the years have you to thank for laying the foundation,and I agree with the other (downvoted) poster who says it saddens him a bit to see you regret something which has brought so much happiness to the world. If you ignore the selfish server administrators and look at the comments from some of the better parts of the community you'll quickly see that you've helped a lot of people cope with various ills in their lives, and many people have outright told me that they felt classic servers had helped them stave off depression or even suicide.
        marenkay 9y ago
        The comparison does not work because Nostalrius/Elysium actually uses a codebase from the around 2010. If you go back to old MaNGOS sources and do the diff on that old state you can see it is just a few bug fixes. It looks like Nostalrius and Elysium developers simply did not figure out that after that MaNGOS was split into distinct projects for each of WoWs expansions and decided to stay with pre-split version. /facepalm
  - zanny 9y ago
    And that is a situation where license alone wouldn't have helped, since even if you went and threw it under the AGPL most of the private servers operate outside US copyright jurisdiction so they can advertise themselves as private WoW servers in the first place. The community itself bashes a ton on private servers for taking GPL code, adding a bunch to it, and then never releasing changes even after they go under. It probably relates back to the general disinterest / apathy / ignorance of software freedom in gaming / hobbyist scenes in general, though. If you have never written a line of code in your life you probably have no idea how the world operates in regards to licensing. You don't distinguish VLC from Windows Media Player besides the visuals you see in front of you.
sturmen 9y ago
I had no idea it was so taxing, but I do want to let you know that MaNGOS is probably what set me on a path of learning programming (which has become my career) so I am indebted to you.
- marenkay 9y ago
  Always nice to hear it had some of the intended effects. The - albeit ideal - project goal always was to inspire people to learn development and engage with more complex issues.
mrkrabo 9y ago
Thanks to mangos I've played for years for free. I've made dozens of friends along the way. It's been a big part of my life and I'm very happy about it. Your project has made me and thousands of people very happy. So don't talk such rot.
- __s 9y ago
  This is about him, not you. He means you no ill will; only that the project was a burden to him, & he didn't receive much compensation besides the entitled thanks from such illustrious folk as Mr Krabo
  - mrkrabo 9y ago
    I don't know man. It bothers me that he feels like that about his project. Making people happy always means making some sacrifice.
  - marenkay 9y ago
    Probably is the whole point: there has not been many thankful moments, it was usually demands for more stuff being given away for free.
ghthor 9y ago
Thanks for all your hard work! Also you're a badass and those WoW private servers have been loads of fun for me and my friends!

tokenizerrr 9y ago

But did you regret making it open source, or doing it at all? Wouldn't most of those issues have still occurred had you kept the source closed, but ran such a server?

marenkay 9y ago
Definitely the open source part, as most of the issues were results of open sourcing it. This comes down to two parts being problematic: - we took away business from private servers as there was now an open source solution - applying the open source community model on the private server scene was a disaster. It was to idealistic. In hindsight, the open source part was basically painting a target on us. As an example: private servers running mostly use MaNGOS (there is not much else to use) and pretend to have built their own software and advertise by bashing MaNGOS.
- tokenizerrr 9y ago
  Interesting! Could you give some more examples?
  - marenkay 9y ago
    Of course. Remember that huge buzz about how Blizzard should offer servers running older expansions that was headed by a private server named Nostalrius? Well, those guys used MaNGOS source code with just a few bug fixes, and snatched an invite to Blizzard: http://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44218 http://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44218 In the end, the sources went public and it appears they were using a five year old MaNGOS codebase and not the famed "own codebase". A repeating pattern ever since 2005.
    - Omniusaspirer 9y ago
      While they certainly did use Mangos, it is worth pointing out for the less informed that they did a lot more than "a few bugfixes". If you compare the current Elysium core (taken from Nostalrius and opensourced) and the stock MaNGOS that existed at the time of Nostalrius launch there's absolutely no comparison- let alone if you compared 2005 MaNGOS as released by marenkay and what we have today after over 10 years of open source development from thousands of contributors. All of that said, myself and millions of others who have enjoyed classic servers over the years have you to thank for laying the foundation,and I agree with the other (downvoted) poster who says it saddens him a bit to see you regret something which has brought so much happiness to the world. If you ignore the selfish server administrators and look at the comments from some of the better parts of the community you'll quickly see that you've helped a lot of people cope with various ills in their lives, and many people have outright told me that they felt classic servers had helped them stave off depression or even suicide.
      - marenkay 9y ago
        The comparison does not work because Nostalrius/Elysium actually uses a codebase from the around 2010. If you go back to old MaNGOS sources and do the diff on that old state you can see it is just a few bug fixes. It looks like Nostalrius and Elysium developers simply did not figure out that after that MaNGOS was split into distinct projects for each of WoWs expansions and decided to stay with pre-split version. /facepalm
- zanny 9y ago
  And that is a situation where license alone wouldn't have helped, since even if you went and threw it under the AGPL most of the private servers operate outside US copyright jurisdiction so they can advertise themselves as private WoW servers in the first place. The community itself bashes a ton on private servers for taking GPL code, adding a bunch to it, and then never releasing changes even after they go under. It probably relates back to the general disinterest / apathy / ignorance of software freedom in gaming / hobbyist scenes in general, though. If you have never written a line of code in your life you probably have no idea how the world operates in regards to licensing. You don't distinguish VLC from Windows Media Player besides the visuals you see in front of you.

sturmen 9y ago

I had no idea it was so taxing, but I do want to let you know that MaNGOS is probably what set me on a path of learning programming (which has become my career) so I am indebted to you.

marenkay 9y ago
Always nice to hear it had some of the intended effects. The - albeit ideal - project goal always was to inspire people to learn development and engage with more complex issues.

mrkrabo 9y ago

Thanks to mangos I've played for years for free. I've made dozens of friends along the way. It's been a big part of my life and I'm very happy about it. Your project has made me and thousands of people very happy. So don't talk such rot.

__s 9y ago
This is about him, not you. He means you no ill will; only that the project was a burden to him, & he didn't receive much compensation besides the entitled thanks from such illustrious folk as Mr Krabo
- mrkrabo 9y ago
  I don't know man. It bothers me that he feels like that about his project. Making people happy always means making some sacrifice.
- marenkay 9y ago
  Probably is the whole point: there has not been many thankful moments, it was usually demands for more stuff being given away for free.

ghthor 9y ago

Thanks for all your hard work! Also you're a badass and those WoW private servers have been loads of fun for me and my friends!