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When I read stories like these, I actually feel good about my bootstrapped, down-to-earth startup. We don't make millions, we don't "disrupt" the industry, yet
by sillysaurus3 9y ago
When I read stories like these, I actually feel good about my bootstrapped, down-to-earth startup. We don't make millions, we don't "disrupt" the industry, yet we solve our customers' problems and delight them. We won't ever run out of money, as we carefully check each and every expenditure, and have growing savings in the bank.
When I read stories like these, I actually feel good about my bootstrapped, down-to-earth startup. We don't make millions, we don't "disrupt" the industry, yet we solve our customers' problems and delight them. We won't ever run out of money, as we carefully check each and every expenditure, and have growing savings in the bank.
Then it's not a startup. A startup is designed to grow quickly. Everything we associate with startups stems from the fact that the successful ones do make millions within a decade.
For it to be a startup, you have to have a large target market. That means any competitor that chooses to grow quickly will trounce one that moves slowly.
- codegladiator 9y ago> For it to be a startup, you have to have a large target market. Making up your own definition of startup ? A start-up is just a newly established business.
- sillysaurus3 9y agoActually, I'm using http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html That's like calling a newly established barber shop a startup. It's not. The GP is working on a podcast hosting company. The market for people who want to host podcasts is miniscule. Large enough to sustain a company, sure. But that's not a startup.
- dkersten 9y agoWhile I personally buy into that definition too, it IS very much a valley centric definition that much of the rest of the world doesn't follow. At least, not to the letter. So be aware that you may be speaking to people outside of your bubble when throwing around black or white definitions like this, because they may have their own differing definitions. Besides, there have been multiple "podcast startups" (by the valley-definition of startup) in the past.
- sillysaurus3 9y agoIf podcast hosting is used as a stepping stone into a more general market, that could work. But the GP indicated they were small and moved slowly, so they can't really leverage that. It doesn't matter whether it originated in the valley. It's not like calling an elevator a lift. A startup is a technical term with a precise meaning. You can call your bar a startup if you want, but that doesn't make it true.
- ryanbrunner 9y agoThat "precise meaning" is not universally accepted (or even really all that popular). Paul Graham proposed it once, some people subscribe to that, but it's not universal, and I'd say YC and the greater VC community have a vested interest in ensuring companies like the one this comment chain is about are not viewed as startups.
- sillysaurus3 9y agoIt's not just quibbling. If you don't use that definition, then the word "startup" loses all meaning. It doesn't matter what other people call themselves. I think companies that don't follow that definition have an agenda: startups are now prestigious, so they call themselves a startup in order to seem impressive.
- wolco 9y agoIf we all accept a definition that becomes the new meaning. It depends on the group listening. Language changes because its based on society at large defining the rules.
- vinceguidry 9y agoYou're just not going to get anywhere trying to argue word definition on the Internet, even (especially) where it matters the most, like where if you're wrong you've done wasted a decade of your life. You're just going to get drowned out by people with way more invested in their failure than you have in your success. Sad, but it's just human nature.
- guitarsteve 9y agoGoogle search defines a startup as "a newly established business". Dictionary.com says "a new business venture, or a new commercial or industrial project". Merriam-Webster says "a fledgling business enterprise". I don't mean to be difficult but it's annoying that some folks on HN insist that PG's definition of "startup" is the only possible one. It's a useful definition, but people who use it the non-PG way are not wrong either.
- sillysaurus3 9y agoGoogle defines hapless as unlucky, but that's not true either.
- codegladiator 9y agoSo by that logic, a startup which which provides barber to your doorstep to trim your hair is not a startup ? Also, what about start-ups selling fruits/vegetables ?
- sillysaurus3 9y agoRead the essay.
- sethrin 9y agostartup, n: an otherwise normal business that isn't making money. But more seriously, the term is somewhat vague and is often misapplied.
- joshyeager 9y agoThat definition of "startup" is very valley-centric. Most of the rest of the world still means it the way the grandparent meant. A small, fairly young company that is building a new product/service.
- sillysaurus3 9y agoThere's a word for that: a business. If someone built a bar in your neighborhood, would you call it a startup? It meets all your criteria. But at that point the word becomes useless. You could argue that it's not a new service. Yet some of the most successful startups applied technology to old ideas, like Craigslist and eBay.
- rimliu 9y agoNew bar would still offer the old service (beer). Startup will offer new product/service.
- nip 9y agoA startup is a business with a high growth potential, otherwise it's just a business as already pointed out by @sillysaurus3. If tomorrow 250 people are queuing to get a drink from your bar, you won't be able to cater to their needs, nor the next day, opening a new brick-and-mortar business takes a lot of time. A startup would be able to scale (after a couple of days / week) and fulfill the customers' needs.
- joshyeager 9y agoPG invented that definition when he started YC. It's a good definition, and useful in the VC world. But it's not the original definition, and most of the non-VC/Valley world still uses the original one: a business that is trying to build something new, whether it's aiming for big growth or just a steady new market.
- BoorishBears 9y agoI disagree, here in CT of all places the distinction between business and startup is the same, focused on growth. I've heard multiple in the area VCs on multiple occasions confirm their worst nightmare is a "lifestyle business", not growing fast enough for 10x growth but not dying so they can write off their losses
- ryanbrunner 9y agoThis is pedantics. Their definition of "startup" vs. yours is completely irrelevant to the point they are trying to make.
- sillysaurus3 9y agoActually, it's central to the conversation. This isn't some semantic quibbling. They were arguing the startup model is broken and then giving an example of an alternative (themselves) without meeting any of the criteria of actually being a startup. I'm convinced that the startup scene is now filled with posers who call themselves startups for prestige. This probably isn't a new phenomenon, but it's relatively new on HN.
- ryanbrunner 9y agoWhat difference does it make whether he can call himself a startup? Saying "the startup model is broken, I'm happier running my business, which is small and bootstrapped but profitable" doesn't change anything just because he can't use the word "startup".
- sillysaurus3 9y agoIt's the distinction of outsider vs insider. Someone who actually runs a startup is better positioned to criticize the model. More than that, if everyone who started a startup were to follow his model, no one would care about startups because they wouldn't matter. But they do matter, and the reason why they matter is that they grow quickly.
- bogomipz 9y ago>"Then it's not a startup. A startup is designed to grow quickly. Everything we associate with startups stems from the fact that the successful ones do make millions within a decade. For it to be a startup, you have to have a large target market." I am sorry but where is that criteria codified? This is nonsense. Here is an article with 14 founders being asked what defines a "startup" and only one of them mentions market size: https://www.forbes.com/sites/natalierobehmed/2013/12/16/what-is-a-startup/#2d40de954044 https://www.forbes.com/sites/natalierobehmed/2013/12/16/what... >"Everything we associate with startups stems from the fact that the successful ones do make millions within a decade." No, that's the sensational media coverage that associates that. Further what is meant by "make millions"? Millions in revenue when you are losing millions is not really an indicator of success is it? Also Uber, Spotify at 8 and 11 years old respectively both have millions in revenue but lose money. Are they "successful"?
- sillysaurus3 9y agoI am sorry but where is that criteria codified? http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html
- bogomipz 9y agoExactly, that article was written by a VC. That does not make it a universal definition.
- sillysaurus3 9y agoIf an ad hominem is the best criticism you can come up with, it seems correct to me.
- bogomipz 9y agoYou might want to look up the meaning of ad hominem. There is nothing in my comment that is even remotely attacking either you personally or your character.