7 ms·

Rise in Google bikes stolen, dumped in Mountain View creek has locals annoyed

26 points by MilnerRoute 9y ago

nkurz 9y ago
From the article: "According to the Mountain View Voice and NBC Bay Area, some Peninsula residents are annoyed by the increase in dumping, in part because they say Google isn't working harder to prevent the bikes from being stolen in the first place." "The root of the problem, as Wired wrote in 2013, is that the bikes are not locked or tracked, leaving them vulnerable to theft." Are there many people outside the Bay Area who would agree that the "root problem" is with Google failing to adequately protect their property? Am I wrong to think that the real root is the thieves who are stealing the bicycles with apparent impunity, and not with the owners of the bikes? As a transplant to California from a part of the US with stricter standards regarding property crime, I can't help but think that the apparent official tolerance of theft and common "blame the victim" attitude contributes significantly to the high rate of property crimes. "Why Can't San Francisco Stop Its Epidemic of Window Smashing?" https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/san-francisco-crime-policy/479880/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/san-fra... "Why Oakland Police Can't Solve Crime" https://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/why-oakland-police-cant-solve-crime/Content?oid=4288948 https://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/why-oakland-police-ca...
- URSpider94 9y ago
  I'm all for property rights, but I think the social contract here is pretty ambiguous. Google just tosses these bikes out on the streets, does nothing to police their usage, doesn't ask the police to go after unauthorized users, and doesn't seem to care too much if you call them about a misplaced bike. Google bikes are closer to litter than to property.
  - euyyn 9y ago
    > Google just tosses these bikes out on the streets That's the thieves, not Google. Google tosses the bikes inside the campus only. > doesn't seem to care too much if you call them about a misplaced bike If you ever call them, they'll send a van to collect the bike, as buying a new bike costs more money than rescuing it.
    - URSpider94 9y ago
      Google is not just a campus any longer. There are offices in many different places in Mountain View and Sunnyvale. Even within Mountain View, I'm pretty sure I've seen EMPLOYEES ride them to the train station and Castro Street...
- smartician 9y ago
  Just like with shopping carts, I think there's a general perception that these bikes are free to use for the public. People treat it like disposable transportation. Not just the homeless and teenagers with questionable morals; I've seen all kinds of people on them, all over Mountain View. I've even seen one where the "owner" attempted to personalize it by painting it white (badly). I think Google should add clearer messaging to these bikes, and maybe ask MVPD to stop anyone they encounter on one of these bikes outside of a 3 mile radius from a Google office.
  - euyyn 9y ago
    IIRC, except the old ones, they have a plaque in the basket indicating they're private property. And the campus isn't exactly in the middle of downtown either; it's not like on your walk to the grocery store you cross the Googleplex and take one thinking it's public.
- euyyn 9y ago
  They even send a van to pick them up if you call 650-253-5353 and tell them. It goes without saying that it costs the company money, even when they get recovered.
- vanderZwan 9y ago
  Why think in either-or terms? Yes, something should be done about the thieves. But imagine leaving a car unlocked and ready to go. How would you feel about the situation then? Personally, as a Dutchman I find the idea of not having at least two locks on your bikes (preferably different brands, our thieves tend to specialise) absurd.
  - nkurz 9y ago
    Why think in either-or terms? It's not either-or, but my question here concerns the societal attitudes toward theft and their effect on its prevalence, not the practicalities of reducing the risk of theft. But imagine leaving a car unlocked and ready to go. How would you feel about the situation then? I'd feel exactly the same. There are still many parts of the US where cars are regularly left unlocked, often enough with the key in the ignition if it's somewhere considered safe like a private driveway. Where I grew up in rural Wisconsin (northern USA) the joke was that you only needed to lock your car in the late autumn, because if you didn't someone might fill it with unwanted zucchini. Inspired by this joke, I filled several teachers' cars with squash after the first frost. In these same areas, it's also the case that many houses are rarely if ever locked. I don't think I've ever saw a key for the house I grew up in, and I'm certain I never had one for myself. In the same way that coins in a blind man's cup are not considered OK to steal just because he is not able to defend himself well, having an unlocked house or car is not considered to be granting permission to thieves. Transgression is viewed very negatively even if the level of difficulty is low. Tying this back to hacking, In 1990, Harper's Magazine published a seminal roundtable article titled "Is Computer Hacking a Crime?" (http://www.textfiles.com/news/hackers.txt http://www.textfiles.com/news/hackers.txt). In it, John Perry Barlow makes this comment: "BARLOW [Day 2. 10:41 P.M.]: I live in a small town. I don't have a key to my house. Am I asking for it? I think not. Among the juvenile delinquents in my town, there does exist a vandal's ethic. I know because I once was one. In a real community, part of a kid's rite of passage is discovering what walls can be breached. Driving 110 miles per hour on Main Street is a common symptom of rural adolescence, publicly denounced but privately understood. Many teenagers die in this quest-two just the night before last-but it is basic to our culture. Even rebellious kids understand that risk to one's safety is one thing, wanton vandalism or theft is another. As a result, almost no one locks anything here. In fact, a security system is an affront to a teenage psyche. While a kid might be dissuaded by conscience, he will regard a barricade as an insult and a challenge." My point isn't that there is one right approach, but that there is an interplay between attitudes and actions. Is it possible for cars and houses to be left unlocked just because it is currently a low-crime area, or might the fact that cars and houses are unlocked --- combined with a lack of tolerance for crime --- help to keep these as low-crime areas where such an approach is possible?
- Lunatic666 9y ago
  In Germany the owner is responsible for the property, so if something gets stolen and dumped, you have to manage how to get it back. I guess that's why people care more about their stuff and lock it.
- jdietrich 9y ago
  Someone who leaves a box full of spray paint cans out on their porch may be partly liable if some delinquent kids steal it and vandalise the neighbourhood. The young hoodlums are still guilty of theft and vandalism, but the negligence of the homeowner clearly played a contributory role.
trophycase 9y ago
I honestly don't mind when I see a homeless person riding the bike. I guarantee they are getting far more utility out of it than any Google employee is, property rights be damned.
- mliker 9y ago
  Stealing is stealing. There is no excuse for it despite your "utility" excuse.
  - URSpider94 9y ago
    In most jurisdictions, you'd have a very hard time prosecuting this as theft. The bikes are often left tipped over on the sidewalk, here and there around town. At most, under the law, you are probably "borrowing without permission." People (even homeless people) don't usually keep the bikes, they just dump them off somewhere in Mountain View or Sunnyvale, where either someone else picks them up and rides them or someone calls Google to come get them.
_e 9y ago
If google adds tracking devices to the bikes then people are going to complain about privacy.
- anon4728 9y ago
  That's a piss-poor, chicken-little, false-equivalency fallacy. There's little in way of accountability or personally-identifiable tracking. GPS trackers with batteries are $25 in volume, minus data plan, and epoxy those suckers into the frame. Track the bikes, not people, and recover them before batteries die, if they haven't moved or get dumped in a weird place.
DrScump 9y ago
(features two auto-start video ads)
mtl_usr 9y ago
Doesn't seem very different than the Google Bus vandalism that was in the news a few years ago. Some people want Google to look bad for whatever reasons. It sounds like these people know that recovering the bikes will cost Google money and that their public image will be impacted by having their Google branded property littered in wooded areas.
saagarjha 9y ago
I'm curious: why would anyone steal such an conspicuous bike? It's really hard to pass one of these off as your own when riding it.
johnsmith21006 9y ago
What is wrong wth people?
URSpider94 9y ago
Honestly, I'm not sure everyone in the area even knows they belong to Google. Two or three of my co-workers (not at Google) show up on them for work every morning, and ride them back to the light rail every evening. I expect they just think they are community free bikes ...
- euyyn 9y ago
  That I understand, but those two bikes weren't placed in the station by Google. Someone stole them originally and left them there.
  - URSpider94 9y ago
    Not true, actually. The Google Tech Corners office in Sunnyvale sits directly adjacent to a light rail stop.
    - euyyn 9y ago
      Google absolutely wouldn't place bikes in the light rail station. I can imagine employees leaving them there, but it'd go against company policy.
wand3r 9y ago
I'm no Google fan, but blaming them because someone stole their property and threw it in a river is insane.
JCharante 9y ago
What is up with all the blame on Google? Just because they have money doesn't mean it's okay to victim blame them. Don't blame Google for getting their bikes stolen, blame the people who are stealing them.

26 points by MilnerRoute 9y ago

From the article: "According to the Mountain View Voice and NBC Bay Area, some Peninsula residents are annoyed by the increase in dumping, in part because they say Google isn't working harder to prevent the bikes from being stolen in the first place." "The root of the problem, as Wired wrote in 2013, is that the bikes are not locked or tracked, leaving them vulnerable to theft." Are there many people outside the Bay Area who would agree that the "root problem" is with Google failing to adequately protect their property? Am I wrong to think that the real root is the thieves who are stealing the bicycles with apparent impunity, and not with the owners of the bikes? As a transplant to California from a part of the US with stricter standards regarding property crime, I can't help but think that the apparent official tolerance of theft and common "blame the victim" attitude contributes significantly to the high rate of property crimes. "Why Can't San Francisco Stop Its Epidemic of Window Smashing?" https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/san-francisco-crime-policy/479880/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/san-fra... "Why Oakland Police Can't Solve Crime" https://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/why-oakland-police-cant-solve-crime/Content?oid=4288948 https://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/why-oakland-police-ca...

URSpider94 9y ago
I'm all for property rights, but I think the social contract here is pretty ambiguous. Google just tosses these bikes out on the streets, does nothing to police their usage, doesn't ask the police to go after unauthorized users, and doesn't seem to care too much if you call them about a misplaced bike. Google bikes are closer to litter than to property.
- euyyn 9y ago
  > Google just tosses these bikes out on the streets That's the thieves, not Google. Google tosses the bikes inside the campus only. > doesn't seem to care too much if you call them about a misplaced bike If you ever call them, they'll send a van to collect the bike, as buying a new bike costs more money than rescuing it.
  - URSpider94 9y ago
    Google is not just a campus any longer. There are offices in many different places in Mountain View and Sunnyvale. Even within Mountain View, I'm pretty sure I've seen EMPLOYEES ride them to the train station and Castro Street...
smartician 9y ago
Just like with shopping carts, I think there's a general perception that these bikes are free to use for the public. People treat it like disposable transportation. Not just the homeless and teenagers with questionable morals; I've seen all kinds of people on them, all over Mountain View. I've even seen one where the "owner" attempted to personalize it by painting it white (badly). I think Google should add clearer messaging to these bikes, and maybe ask MVPD to stop anyone they encounter on one of these bikes outside of a 3 mile radius from a Google office.
- euyyn 9y ago
  IIRC, except the old ones, they have a plaque in the basket indicating they're private property. And the campus isn't exactly in the middle of downtown either; it's not like on your walk to the grocery store you cross the Googleplex and take one thinking it's public.
euyyn 9y ago
They even send a van to pick them up if you call 650-253-5353 and tell them. It goes without saying that it costs the company money, even when they get recovered.
vanderZwan 9y ago
Why think in either-or terms? Yes, something should be done about the thieves. But imagine leaving a car unlocked and ready to go. How would you feel about the situation then? Personally, as a Dutchman I find the idea of not having at least two locks on your bikes (preferably different brands, our thieves tend to specialise) absurd.
- nkurz 9y ago
  Why think in either-or terms? It's not either-or, but my question here concerns the societal attitudes toward theft and their effect on its prevalence, not the practicalities of reducing the risk of theft. But imagine leaving a car unlocked and ready to go. How would you feel about the situation then? I'd feel exactly the same. There are still many parts of the US where cars are regularly left unlocked, often enough with the key in the ignition if it's somewhere considered safe like a private driveway. Where I grew up in rural Wisconsin (northern USA) the joke was that you only needed to lock your car in the late autumn, because if you didn't someone might fill it with unwanted zucchini. Inspired by this joke, I filled several teachers' cars with squash after the first frost. In these same areas, it's also the case that many houses are rarely if ever locked. I don't think I've ever saw a key for the house I grew up in, and I'm certain I never had one for myself. In the same way that coins in a blind man's cup are not considered OK to steal just because he is not able to defend himself well, having an unlocked house or car is not considered to be granting permission to thieves. Transgression is viewed very negatively even if the level of difficulty is low. Tying this back to hacking, In 1990, Harper's Magazine published a seminal roundtable article titled "Is Computer Hacking a Crime?" (http://www.textfiles.com/news/hackers.txt http://www.textfiles.com/news/hackers.txt). In it, John Perry Barlow makes this comment: "BARLOW [Day 2. 10:41 P.M.]: I live in a small town. I don't have a key to my house. Am I asking for it? I think not. Among the juvenile delinquents in my town, there does exist a vandal's ethic. I know because I once was one. In a real community, part of a kid's rite of passage is discovering what walls can be breached. Driving 110 miles per hour on Main Street is a common symptom of rural adolescence, publicly denounced but privately understood. Many teenagers die in this quest-two just the night before last-but it is basic to our culture. Even rebellious kids understand that risk to one's safety is one thing, wanton vandalism or theft is another. As a result, almost no one locks anything here. In fact, a security system is an affront to a teenage psyche. While a kid might be dissuaded by conscience, he will regard a barricade as an insult and a challenge." My point isn't that there is one right approach, but that there is an interplay between attitudes and actions. Is it possible for cars and houses to be left unlocked just because it is currently a low-crime area, or might the fact that cars and houses are unlocked --- combined with a lack of tolerance for crime --- help to keep these as low-crime areas where such an approach is possible?
Lunatic666 9y ago
In Germany the owner is responsible for the property, so if something gets stolen and dumped, you have to manage how to get it back. I guess that's why people care more about their stuff and lock it.
jdietrich 9y ago
Someone who leaves a box full of spray paint cans out on their porch may be partly liable if some delinquent kids steal it and vandalise the neighbourhood. The young hoodlums are still guilty of theft and vandalism, but the negligence of the homeowner clearly played a contributory role.

trophycase 9y ago

I honestly don't mind when I see a homeless person riding the bike. I guarantee they are getting far more utility out of it than any Google employee is, property rights be damned.

mliker 9y ago
Stealing is stealing. There is no excuse for it despite your "utility" excuse.
- URSpider94 9y ago
  In most jurisdictions, you'd have a very hard time prosecuting this as theft. The bikes are often left tipped over on the sidewalk, here and there around town. At most, under the law, you are probably "borrowing without permission." People (even homeless people) don't usually keep the bikes, they just dump them off somewhere in Mountain View or Sunnyvale, where either someone else picks them up and rides them or someone calls Google to come get them.

_e 9y ago

If google adds tracking devices to the bikes then people are going to complain about privacy.

anon4728 9y ago
That's a piss-poor, chicken-little, false-equivalency fallacy. There's little in way of accountability or personally-identifiable tracking. GPS trackers with batteries are $25 in volume, minus data plan, and epoxy those suckers into the frame. Track the bikes, not people, and recover them before batteries die, if they haven't moved or get dumped in a weird place.

DrScump 9y ago

(features two auto-start video ads)

mtl_usr 9y ago

Doesn't seem very different than the Google Bus vandalism that was in the news a few years ago. Some people want Google to look bad for whatever reasons. It sounds like these people know that recovering the bikes will cost Google money and that their public image will be impacted by having their Google branded property littered in wooded areas.

saagarjha 9y ago

I'm curious: why would anyone steal such an conspicuous bike? It's really hard to pass one of these off as your own when riding it.

johnsmith21006 9y ago

What is wrong wth people?

URSpider94 9y ago

Honestly, I'm not sure everyone in the area even knows they belong to Google. Two or three of my co-workers (not at Google) show up on them for work every morning, and ride them back to the light rail every evening. I expect they just think they are community free bikes ...

euyyn 9y ago
That I understand, but those two bikes weren't placed in the station by Google. Someone stole them originally and left them there.
- URSpider94 9y ago
  Not true, actually. The Google Tech Corners office in Sunnyvale sits directly adjacent to a light rail stop.
  - euyyn 9y ago
    Google absolutely wouldn't place bikes in the light rail station. I can imagine employees leaving them there, but it'd go against company policy.

wand3r 9y ago

I'm no Google fan, but blaming them because someone stole their property and threw it in a river is insane.

JCharante 9y ago

What is up with all the blame on Google? Just because they have money doesn't mean it's okay to victim blame them. Don't blame Google for getting their bikes stolen, blame the people who are stealing them.