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I actually started cutting pork out of my diet after a comment on HN about vegetarianism and meat choices pointed out the same thing. I still eat it -- because

by ethbro 9y ago

I actually started cutting pork out of my diet after a comment on HN about vegetarianism and meat choices pointed out the same thing. I still eat it -- because it's so ubiquitous -- but am trying to shift to chicken whenever I have the choice. Eating something that's smart and social just seems wrong to me, when there are plenty of stupider animals as alternatives. Also... watch Okja on Netflix ( https://www.netflix.com/title/80091936 https://www.netflix.com/title/80091936 ), especially the ending.

themgt 9y ago
As a counterpoint I recently saw an astonishing-if-true stat of the number of animals killed per million calories by food [1]. About 14x as many chickens die vs pigs. Even if pigs are smarter, that may change the way you weight the ethics a bit. We should all be eating brainless bivalves perhaps? [2] [1]: http://www.animalvisuals.org/projects/data/1mc http://www.animalvisuals.org/projects/data/1mc [2]: https://sentientist.org/2013/05/20/the-ethical-case-for-eating-oysters-and-mussels/ https://sentientist.org/2013/05/20/the-ethical-case-for-eati...
- acconrad 9y ago
  So with reference 2 I don't understand how you can be okay eating mussels but not okay eating eggs or dairy. If a hen naturally drops eggs and those eggs don't turn into chicks, they will rot anyway. And dairy involves no death. So why would one be "vegan" and eat oysters but not eat dairy or eggs?
  - philipcristiano 9y ago
    Dairy and eggs both involve the death of animals. Dairy cows produce milk for their offspring. In order for us to get milk the offspring must be removed. Typically males are sold for veal, females continue as dairy cows. The production of laying hens results in roughly 50/50 male vs female chickens. Most of the males are killed shortly after hatching as they are not the variety kept for meat.
- hprotagonist 9y ago
  Are you familiar with Derek Parfait's "Repugnant Conclusion"? https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/repugnant-conclusion/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/repugnant-conclusion/ It does not necessarily hold that killing lots of dumb things is worse than killing fewer smarter things, but it could.

by ethbro 9y ago

themgt 9y ago

As a counterpoint I recently saw an astonishing-if-true stat of the number of animals killed per million calories by food [1]. About 14x as many chickens die vs pigs. Even if pigs are smarter, that may change the way you weight the ethics a bit. We should all be eating brainless bivalves perhaps? [2] [1]: http://www.animalvisuals.org/projects/data/1mc http://www.animalvisuals.org/projects/data/1mc [2]: https://sentientist.org/2013/05/20/the-ethical-case-for-eating-oysters-and-mussels/ https://sentientist.org/2013/05/20/the-ethical-case-for-eati...

acconrad 9y ago
So with reference 2 I don't understand how you can be okay eating mussels but not okay eating eggs or dairy. If a hen naturally drops eggs and those eggs don't turn into chicks, they will rot anyway. And dairy involves no death. So why would one be "vegan" and eat oysters but not eat dairy or eggs?
- philipcristiano 9y ago
  Dairy and eggs both involve the death of animals. Dairy cows produce milk for their offspring. In order for us to get milk the offspring must be removed. Typically males are sold for veal, females continue as dairy cows. The production of laying hens results in roughly 50/50 male vs female chickens. Most of the males are killed shortly after hatching as they are not the variety kept for meat.
hprotagonist 9y ago
Are you familiar with Derek Parfait's "Repugnant Conclusion"? https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/repugnant-conclusion/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/repugnant-conclusion/ It does not necessarily hold that killing lots of dumb things is worse than killing fewer smarter things, but it could.