9 ms·

That sounds more like a mental health issue though. I just hope the US government puts in single payer healthcare so resources can be allocated to deal with it

That sounds more like a mental health issue though. I just hope the US government puts in single payer healthcare so resources can be allocated to deal with it properly.

knodi123 9y ago
> That sounds more like a mental health issue though Yes, absolutely, the primary causes of homelessness are drug addiction and mental health issues. There are other causes, and I'd never advocate being callous or dismissive toward the homeless- but this is the reason people find large concentrations of them off-putting.
- ZenoArrow 9y ago
  I'm not disagreeing with you. I'll hopefully never fully understand what it feels like to have someone you're close to being threatened with a knife, but I can imagine it's horrible, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. What I am saying is that in order to cut down on that behaviour, we need to stop the problem at the source. To my knowledge, no country has ever managed to fully eradicate homelessness, but other places have had success in reducing drug addiction and mental health issues. If those issues are tackled, the issues surrounding homelessness should be greatly reduced, including a large reduction in violent and/or erratic behaviour. Trust is hard to build once it's broken, and I'm not asking you to forgive anyone, but we have to look beyond our current hardships if we want a future that's worth looking forward to.
  - scarmig 9y ago
    Everything there is factually true. But I hate the idea that we aren't allowed to do anything to improve quality of life of the non-homeless before homelessness as an issue is solved. Another example: literally every single night, a homeless person sets up a tent with a bunch of trash in my building's fire escape. If there were a fire and we had to use it, it'd pretty much be inaccessible. It's possible to call the city, but they don't fix it overnight, which is kind of the point. And installing a gate in the fire escape alcove is illegal, because the gate would apparently encroach onto public property. So what's to be done? Should I just accept that I should just literally die in a fire, for the sake of a homeless person having a place to sleep? And of course it's easy to say, "well in an ideal world there'd be a bed for them!" Unfortunately the world we live in isn't ideal, but anytime anyone complains about quality of life issues, "homeless advocates" will demand that you solve a century old national problem before granting you have even the slightest right to complain.
    - istjohn 9y ago
      You make it sound like solving homelessness would require a Manhattan Project-like effort. It's not a trivial problem, but the solution is within easy reach of our society if we had the will. What should be done? Give the poor guy a freaking bed with a roof over his head! Why don't you just say we need to take care of that guy so he doesn't have to sleep on your fire escape? You make it sound like you think that would be asking too much of society. Like it's obvious that would be too much. That guy's going to sleep outside, so the least society can do is make sure he's not doing it somewhere that you don't have to worry about tripping over in case of a fire. No! There is no good reason anyone should have to sleep outside in this country. And as long as people do have to sleep outside, those of us who sleep comfortably in our homes should respond to their presence not with disgust but with action.
      - closeparen 9y ago
        Do I have your position correctly, that scarmig is morally obligated to die in fire unless they can pay the rent on an apartment for this person? What happens when a second person starts sleeping there? How many apartments must scarmig rent before they are allowed to evacuate in case of fire? What if scarmig doesn't make a high enough multiple of the minimum viable rental price? Have you just decided they're obligated to die because they don't make enough money? That's kind of ironic. >Why don't you just say we need to take care of that guy so he doesn't have to sleep on your fire escape? Because if saying that conjured shelter beds into existence, we wouldn't have a homeless problem anymore. >the solution is within easy reach of our society if we had the will. I don't think the American people could message "fuck poor people" any louder or any clearer than they just did by electing Trump. The American electorate doesn't lack the will to help the downtrodden, it actively wills them to die. Are we obligated to fight the good fight? Sure. Are we obligated to die in fires unless we achieve a 100% reversal of the poiltical climate? No. > not with disgust but with action. There is no action you can take that will move the needle on homelessness anytime soon. At best, there are actions that a few hundred million people could take together that would achieve a marginal reduction in the problem in in a few decades.
        9y ago
  - knodi123 9y ago
    > What I am saying is that in order to cut down on that behaviour, we need to stop the problem at the source Why not do both? Stop using libraries as de-facto daytime homeless shelters, AND attack the problem at the source? I am STRONGLY in favor of dealing with some of the root causes of homelessness, even if it increases my taxes. Non-paradoxically, I ALSO don't want to have to inspect the library bathrooms for loose needles or scary schizophrenics before letting my kid go in by themselves.

That sounds more like a mental health issue though. I just hope the US government puts in single payer healthcare so resources can be allocated to deal with it properly.

knodi123 9y ago

> That sounds more like a mental health issue though Yes, absolutely, the primary causes of homelessness are drug addiction and mental health issues. There are other causes, and I'd never advocate being callous or dismissive toward the homeless- but this is the reason people find large concentrations of them off-putting.

ZenoArrow 9y ago
I'm not disagreeing with you. I'll hopefully never fully understand what it feels like to have someone you're close to being threatened with a knife, but I can imagine it's horrible, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. What I am saying is that in order to cut down on that behaviour, we need to stop the problem at the source. To my knowledge, no country has ever managed to fully eradicate homelessness, but other places have had success in reducing drug addiction and mental health issues. If those issues are tackled, the issues surrounding homelessness should be greatly reduced, including a large reduction in violent and/or erratic behaviour. Trust is hard to build once it's broken, and I'm not asking you to forgive anyone, but we have to look beyond our current hardships if we want a future that's worth looking forward to.
- scarmig 9y ago
  Everything there is factually true. But I hate the idea that we aren't allowed to do anything to improve quality of life of the non-homeless before homelessness as an issue is solved. Another example: literally every single night, a homeless person sets up a tent with a bunch of trash in my building's fire escape. If there were a fire and we had to use it, it'd pretty much be inaccessible. It's possible to call the city, but they don't fix it overnight, which is kind of the point. And installing a gate in the fire escape alcove is illegal, because the gate would apparently encroach onto public property. So what's to be done? Should I just accept that I should just literally die in a fire, for the sake of a homeless person having a place to sleep? And of course it's easy to say, "well in an ideal world there'd be a bed for them!" Unfortunately the world we live in isn't ideal, but anytime anyone complains about quality of life issues, "homeless advocates" will demand that you solve a century old national problem before granting you have even the slightest right to complain.
  - istjohn 9y ago
    You make it sound like solving homelessness would require a Manhattan Project-like effort. It's not a trivial problem, but the solution is within easy reach of our society if we had the will. What should be done? Give the poor guy a freaking bed with a roof over his head! Why don't you just say we need to take care of that guy so he doesn't have to sleep on your fire escape? You make it sound like you think that would be asking too much of society. Like it's obvious that would be too much. That guy's going to sleep outside, so the least society can do is make sure he's not doing it somewhere that you don't have to worry about tripping over in case of a fire. No! There is no good reason anyone should have to sleep outside in this country. And as long as people do have to sleep outside, those of us who sleep comfortably in our homes should respond to their presence not with disgust but with action.
    - closeparen 9y ago
      Do I have your position correctly, that scarmig is morally obligated to die in fire unless they can pay the rent on an apartment for this person? What happens when a second person starts sleeping there? How many apartments must scarmig rent before they are allowed to evacuate in case of fire? What if scarmig doesn't make a high enough multiple of the minimum viable rental price? Have you just decided they're obligated to die because they don't make enough money? That's kind of ironic. >Why don't you just say we need to take care of that guy so he doesn't have to sleep on your fire escape? Because if saying that conjured shelter beds into existence, we wouldn't have a homeless problem anymore. >the solution is within easy reach of our society if we had the will. I don't think the American people could message "fuck poor people" any louder or any clearer than they just did by electing Trump. The American electorate doesn't lack the will to help the downtrodden, it actively wills them to die. Are we obligated to fight the good fight? Sure. Are we obligated to die in fires unless we achieve a 100% reversal of the poiltical climate? No. > not with disgust but with action. There is no action you can take that will move the needle on homelessness anytime soon. At best, there are actions that a few hundred million people could take together that would achieve a marginal reduction in the problem in in a few decades.
      - 9y ago
- knodi123 9y ago
  > What I am saying is that in order to cut down on that behaviour, we need to stop the problem at the source Why not do both? Stop using libraries as de-facto daytime homeless shelters, AND attack the problem at the source? I am STRONGLY in favor of dealing with some of the root causes of homelessness, even if it increases my taxes. Non-paradoxically, I ALSO don't want to have to inspect the library bathrooms for loose needles or scary schizophrenics before letting my kid go in by themselves.