4 ms·

This is unfortunately accurate for SF also. Luckily we have the Mechanic's Institute which is a relatively inexpensive private library and some of the small nei

This is unfortunately accurate for SF also. Luckily we have the Mechanic's Institute which is a relatively inexpensive private library and some of the small neighborhood libraries are still places for people to learn. However, the main one is more of a homeless respite than a place I enjoy working.

ZenoArrow 9y ago
I've never been to a library in SF, so I don't know what they're like, but is being close to homeless people a distraction? Is it a noise thing? In my local library there are often one or two people that could be homeless, but they were mostly quiet and not causing any fuss.
- drawnwren 9y ago
  In the SF main library, it's mostly a smell thing for me. I would feel the same as you if I didn't have to feel like I was reading a book in a sewer. I agree, I don't care about the socioeconomic status of the library patrons.
  - ZenoArrow 9y ago
    I'm glad we agree on the socioeconomic aspects of homelessness, and I can understand that the smell could be distracting. Are there many programs to help the homeless in SF? From what little I know, I do get the impression that issues surrounding homelessness are becoming a major concern in SF.
    - drawnwren 9y ago
      According to this SF Chronicle article [1], SF spent $241m to combat homelessness in 2015-16. Homelessness is a major concern in SF, but as with everything here - the politics around it are very complicated. 1: http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/S-F-spends-record-241-million-on-homeless-6808319.php http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/S-F-spends-record...
      - ZenoArrow 9y ago
        Thanks for the link. It does sound complicated. The main problem is finding programs that allow people to become self-reliant. This seems particularly tricky in SF as one of the key ingredients for doing so is building affordable housing, which could drop property values generally, which existing homeowners may not be too pleased about. However, aside from relocating people outside SF or continuing with the status quo, there doesn't seem to be much choice. As I'm not a homeowner in SF, I can see the benefits of affordable housing (for homeless people and for people who currently rent), both in terms of reducing social tensions and in growing the local economy, but it's easy to have that view when you've got nothing to lose.
    - zghst 9y ago
      The city tries certain efforts to fix homelessness, no one will ever go hungry or unclothed, but the way they spend money to fix the problem is sometimes asinine. They built a new shelter complete without running water or bathrooms [1]. At over $200m a year, they could have definitely had city sponsored housing for this issue, adding building by building year after year for the affected. But if they took that approach, there would be even more homeless flocking to SF for all of the freebies. 1 - https://www.google.com/amp/www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/nevius/amp/Homeless-saying-no-to-new-Pier-80-shelter-6816218.php https://www.google.com/amp/www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/neviu...
      - ZenoArrow 9y ago
        With the Pier 80 shelter news story you linked to, looks like it was describing the situation back in February 2016, any news on running water since then? Can't imagine it'd take a year to fix. As for the following section of the article... "But if homeless campers don’t buy the idea, the city could be headed for an ugly scene. If San Francisco police or Department of Public Works employees go to the campgrounds and order residents to pack up the tents and leave, and the residents refuse, what’s the next step? Because video of cops and DPW workers rousting homeless people out of tents, with the inevitable shouting and confrontation, would go viral. It would be fodder for the far left fringe homeless advocates and could feed into the uproar about the SFPD." If it comes to it, and people need to be forcibly moved on to a semi-permanent shelter, so be it. I don't see this as a reason to stop pushing forward with plans like the Pier 80 shelter. EDIT: Looks like San Francisco's local government bottled it, the shelter was shut less than 6 months after it opened: https://sf.curbed.com/2016/6/6/11870806/san-francisco-homeless-shelters https://sf.curbed.com/2016/6/6/11870806/san-francisco-homele...
- grenoire 9y ago
  I'm not going to lie, homeless people make me uneasy. I'm not rich, white, or privileged that I put myself on a pedestal; I'm simply aware that a great deal of homeless people are mentally ill, and that doesn't make me feel secure or comfortable.
  - ZenoArrow 9y ago
    I appreciate your honesty. I have found some homeless people hard to communicate with before. I've tried volunteering with homeless people, and it's quite surreal to have them genuinely not remember who you are and speak to you as a stranger even if you spoke with them the week before, which happened on multiple occasions. The main thing that encourages me to look past that is the thought that I could've easily ended up one of them. I'm not the most emotionally strong person I know, if I wasn't born into a supportive family I can easily see how I'd end up in their shoes. Mental health issues are unfortunately common. Hopefully more resources can be made available to help people overcome them.
    - grenoire 9y ago
      I completely agree, and appreciate your efforts too. Even developed countries are (I would say) failing at taking care of mentally ill people.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- zghst 9y ago
  The smell is unbearable not to mention having to be on edge because it’s very likely someone might touch you or come right up to you and start staring, begging, screaming at you.

ZenoArrow 9y ago

I've never been to a library in SF, so I don't know what they're like, but is being close to homeless people a distraction? Is it a noise thing? In my local library there are often one or two people that could be homeless, but they were mostly quiet and not causing any fuss.

drawnwren 9y ago
In the SF main library, it's mostly a smell thing for me. I would feel the same as you if I didn't have to feel like I was reading a book in a sewer. I agree, I don't care about the socioeconomic status of the library patrons.
- ZenoArrow 9y ago
  I'm glad we agree on the socioeconomic aspects of homelessness, and I can understand that the smell could be distracting. Are there many programs to help the homeless in SF? From what little I know, I do get the impression that issues surrounding homelessness are becoming a major concern in SF.
  - drawnwren 9y ago
    According to this SF Chronicle article [1], SF spent $241m to combat homelessness in 2015-16. Homelessness is a major concern in SF, but as with everything here - the politics around it are very complicated. 1: http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/S-F-spends-record-241-million-on-homeless-6808319.php http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/S-F-spends-record...
    - ZenoArrow 9y ago
      Thanks for the link. It does sound complicated. The main problem is finding programs that allow people to become self-reliant. This seems particularly tricky in SF as one of the key ingredients for doing so is building affordable housing, which could drop property values generally, which existing homeowners may not be too pleased about. However, aside from relocating people outside SF or continuing with the status quo, there doesn't seem to be much choice. As I'm not a homeowner in SF, I can see the benefits of affordable housing (for homeless people and for people who currently rent), both in terms of reducing social tensions and in growing the local economy, but it's easy to have that view when you've got nothing to lose.
  - zghst 9y ago
    The city tries certain efforts to fix homelessness, no one will ever go hungry or unclothed, but the way they spend money to fix the problem is sometimes asinine. They built a new shelter complete without running water or bathrooms [1]. At over $200m a year, they could have definitely had city sponsored housing for this issue, adding building by building year after year for the affected. But if they took that approach, there would be even more homeless flocking to SF for all of the freebies. 1 - https://www.google.com/amp/www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/nevius/amp/Homeless-saying-no-to-new-Pier-80-shelter-6816218.php https://www.google.com/amp/www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/neviu...
    - ZenoArrow 9y ago
      With the Pier 80 shelter news story you linked to, looks like it was describing the situation back in February 2016, any news on running water since then? Can't imagine it'd take a year to fix. As for the following section of the article... "But if homeless campers don’t buy the idea, the city could be headed for an ugly scene. If San Francisco police or Department of Public Works employees go to the campgrounds and order residents to pack up the tents and leave, and the residents refuse, what’s the next step? Because video of cops and DPW workers rousting homeless people out of tents, with the inevitable shouting and confrontation, would go viral. It would be fodder for the far left fringe homeless advocates and could feed into the uproar about the SFPD." If it comes to it, and people need to be forcibly moved on to a semi-permanent shelter, so be it. I don't see this as a reason to stop pushing forward with plans like the Pier 80 shelter. EDIT: Looks like San Francisco's local government bottled it, the shelter was shut less than 6 months after it opened: https://sf.curbed.com/2016/6/6/11870806/san-francisco-homeless-shelters https://sf.curbed.com/2016/6/6/11870806/san-francisco-homele...
grenoire 9y ago
I'm not going to lie, homeless people make me uneasy. I'm not rich, white, or privileged that I put myself on a pedestal; I'm simply aware that a great deal of homeless people are mentally ill, and that doesn't make me feel secure or comfortable.
- ZenoArrow 9y ago
  I appreciate your honesty. I have found some homeless people hard to communicate with before. I've tried volunteering with homeless people, and it's quite surreal to have them genuinely not remember who you are and speak to you as a stranger even if you spoke with them the week before, which happened on multiple occasions. The main thing that encourages me to look past that is the thought that I could've easily ended up one of them. I'm not the most emotionally strong person I know, if I wasn't born into a supportive family I can easily see how I'd end up in their shoes. Mental health issues are unfortunately common. Hopefully more resources can be made available to help people overcome them.
  - grenoire 9y ago
    I completely agree, and appreciate your efforts too. Even developed countries are (I would say) failing at taking care of mentally ill people.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
zghst 9y ago
The smell is unbearable not to mention having to be on edge because it’s very likely someone might touch you or come right up to you and start staring, begging, screaming at you.