11 ms·

Libraries are amazing and should be more celebrated and funded to expand their core mission. But cities like LA utilize libraries as refugees for homeless peop

Libraries are amazing and should be more celebrated and funded to expand their core mission. But cities like LA utilize libraries as refugees for homeless people which completely destroys the purpose. It should be a refuge for people working hard and trying to excel in life, not a place for people who have given up on life. I'm happy that the homeless have a place to go but as a society, it seems like we're doing everything wrong trying to fix the problem.

scarmig 9y ago
An ex of mine had a knife pulled on her by a (presumably homeless) man for no reason in the main SF public library. There's an inherent tension between making a space available to homeless people and making it available to all members of the public.
- ZenoArrow 9y ago
  That sounds more like a mental health issue though. I just hope the US government puts in single payer healthcare so resources can be allocated to deal with it properly.
  - knodi123 9y ago
    > That sounds more like a mental health issue though Yes, absolutely, the primary causes of homelessness are drug addiction and mental health issues. There are other causes, and I'd never advocate being callous or dismissive toward the homeless- but this is the reason people find large concentrations of them off-putting.
    - ZenoArrow 9y ago
      I'm not disagreeing with you. I'll hopefully never fully understand what it feels like to have someone you're close to being threatened with a knife, but I can imagine it's horrible, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. What I am saying is that in order to cut down on that behaviour, we need to stop the problem at the source. To my knowledge, no country has ever managed to fully eradicate homelessness, but other places have had success in reducing drug addiction and mental health issues. If those issues are tackled, the issues surrounding homelessness should be greatly reduced, including a large reduction in violent and/or erratic behaviour. Trust is hard to build once it's broken, and I'm not asking you to forgive anyone, but we have to look beyond our current hardships if we want a future that's worth looking forward to.
      - scarmig 9y ago
        Everything there is factually true. But I hate the idea that we aren't allowed to do anything to improve quality of life of the non-homeless before homelessness as an issue is solved. Another example: literally every single night, a homeless person sets up a tent with a bunch of trash in my building's fire escape. If there were a fire and we had to use it, it'd pretty much be inaccessible. It's possible to call the city, but they don't fix it overnight, which is kind of the point. And installing a gate in the fire escape alcove is illegal, because the gate would apparently encroach onto public property. So what's to be done? Should I just accept that I should just literally die in a fire, for the sake of a homeless person having a place to sleep? And of course it's easy to say, "well in an ideal world there'd be a bed for them!" Unfortunately the world we live in isn't ideal, but anytime anyone complains about quality of life issues, "homeless advocates" will demand that you solve a century old national problem before granting you have even the slightest right to complain.
        istjohn 9y ago
        You make it sound like solving homelessness would require a Manhattan Project-like effort. It's not a trivial problem, but the solution is within easy reach of our society if we had the will. What should be done? Give the poor guy a freaking bed with a roof over his head! Why don't you just say we need to take care of that guy so he doesn't have to sleep on your fire escape? You make it sound like you think that would be asking too much of society. Like it's obvious that would be too much. That guy's going to sleep outside, so the least society can do is make sure he's not doing it somewhere that you don't have to worry about tripping over in case of a fire. No! There is no good reason anyone should have to sleep outside in this country. And as long as people do have to sleep outside, those of us who sleep comfortably in our homes should respond to their presence not with disgust but with action.
        closeparen 9y ago
        Do I have your position correctly, that scarmig is morally obligated to die in fire unless they can pay the rent on an apartment for this person? What happens when a second person starts sleeping there? How many apartments must scarmig rent before they are allowed to evacuate in case of fire? What if scarmig doesn't make a high enough multiple of the minimum viable rental price? Have you just decided they're obligated to die because they don't make enough money? That's kind of ironic. >Why don't you just say we need to take care of that guy so he doesn't have to sleep on your fire escape? Because if saying that conjured shelter beds into existence, we wouldn't have a homeless problem anymore. >the solution is within easy reach of our society if we had the will. I don't think the American people could message "fuck poor people" any louder or any clearer than they just did by electing Trump. The American electorate doesn't lack the will to help the downtrodden, it actively wills them to die. Are we obligated to fight the good fight? Sure. Are we obligated to die in fires unless we achieve a 100% reversal of the poiltical climate? No. > not with disgust but with action. There is no action you can take that will move the needle on homelessness anytime soon. At best, there are actions that a few hundred million people could take together that would achieve a marginal reduction in the problem in in a few decades.
- ransom1538 9y ago
  If you live in SF long enough, a knife will be pulled on you eventually. (Happened to me and a few of my friends.) The trick is to just run. To my astonishment this isn't the reaction of most people.
  - coryrc 9y ago
    They run all the way to the suburbs, where their environmental impact doubles, but at least they can go to the library without getting stabbed.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - zghst 9y ago
    The first part of your comment is correct, that is very much true. I hope though that no one ever turns to expose their back to the assailant to make a run
drawnwren 9y ago
This is unfortunately accurate for SF also. Luckily we have the Mechanic's Institute which is a relatively inexpensive private library and some of the small neighborhood libraries are still places for people to learn. However, the main one is more of a homeless respite than a place I enjoy working.
- ZenoArrow 9y ago
  I've never been to a library in SF, so I don't know what they're like, but is being close to homeless people a distraction? Is it a noise thing? In my local library there are often one or two people that could be homeless, but they were mostly quiet and not causing any fuss.
  - drawnwren 9y ago
    In the SF main library, it's mostly a smell thing for me. I would feel the same as you if I didn't have to feel like I was reading a book in a sewer. I agree, I don't care about the socioeconomic status of the library patrons.
    - ZenoArrow 9y ago
      I'm glad we agree on the socioeconomic aspects of homelessness, and I can understand that the smell could be distracting. Are there many programs to help the homeless in SF? From what little I know, I do get the impression that issues surrounding homelessness are becoming a major concern in SF.
      - drawnwren 9y ago
        According to this SF Chronicle article [1], SF spent $241m to combat homelessness in 2015-16. Homelessness is a major concern in SF, but as with everything here - the politics around it are very complicated. 1: http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/S-F-spends-record-241-million-on-homeless-6808319.php http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/S-F-spends-record...
codehusker 9y ago
What is your proposed solution? How does one limit a free, public resource to only people with homes? A literal smell test? How do people without homes "completely destroy the purpose"? Are they stealing books? Breaking computers? Barricading the doors? Do you really believe that all people without homes have "given up on life"? Not a single one is "working hard and trying to excel in life"? Have you heard of working people without homes? Particularly in LA, SF, et al. where the cost of a home vastly exceeds the income of many people? Do you think education could be a productive method for reducing the number of people without homes?
- irq11 9y ago
  Rules. No sleeping. No drug use. No bathing in the restrooms. No shitting on anything. No violent or threatening behavior. Period. Then enforce those rules. One violation, and you're out. Two, and you're out for good. Librarians know who the troublemakers are. They just have no power to do anything about them. It's not illegal to be homeless, but that doesn't mean you should be allowed to do violent, illegal or disgusting things without consequence.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - lebanon_tn 9y ago
    The library my spouse worked at was terrified of being sued (happened to a neighboring city) and they aren't allowed to touch unattended belongings.
    - learc83 9y ago
      Why are they so afraid of being sued? There are plenty of other public spaces that don't have a problem removing people for similar behavior. Most people maintaining public spaces view unattended bags as a public safety threat.
      - ethbro 9y ago
tylerflick 9y ago
> But cities like LA utilize libraries as refugees for homeless people which completely destroys the purpose. I defiantly see this happening in Pasadena. The main library has become a refuge from the summer heat, but I feel like this drives others from using it.
moron4hire 9y ago
Homeless people are typically people with mental health issues who are unable to find treatment, due to lack of money, insurance, or having been discharged early from state mental health facilities after budget cut backs. Not "people who have given up on life".
icantdrive55 9y ago
They just gave up, and that's the reason? You're probably young, and have a wonderful support sysyem (these days, a rich, sympathetic father), but be careful about throwing around aspersions. Life will throw you some real curves. It might get so ugly, you will look back upon your youth idealism and literally cry?
- icebraining 9y ago
  Like a Rolling Stone
whyenot 9y ago
This is a real problem, and one that is difficult to address. San Jose's MLK Library (also shared with San Jose State University) is the day time destination for much of the city's homeless population. Who can blame them -- it's a safe cool place to stay and sleep during the day. Unfortunately, this limits the space that is available for people to work and study. There have also been two suicides in the past year (people jumping from the 7th floor balcony into the central atrium -- it's now being walled off to prevent this).
- ajmurmann 9y ago
  This is such a shame. Despite not having been there in a long time I have very find memories of studying in that beautiful building.
WalterBright 9y ago
Maybe build another building next to the library for people who want a refuge but not books. Have a few amenities to attract the homeless there, like bathrooms, air conditioning, water, a few snacks, laptops for internet porn, a couple security guards to prevent fights and predation, etc. Make it more attractive for the homeless than the library.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
madeofpalk 9y ago
> a refuge for people working hard and trying to excel in life, not a place for people who have given up on life What an interesting take.
zghst 9y ago
That sounds like a very good approach, a source of knowledge and public coworking space.
dleslie 9y ago
Homeless people deserve access to the knowledge and comfort of a library. It _shouldn't_ be a place of exclusion predicated upon social class.
- remir 9y ago
  It shouldn't be a refuge to homeless people either. You go to the library to read, study, look at things on the computer if you don't have access to one. Everybody agrees that homeless people should have access to knowledge, but a library is not a place to sleep, bathe and deal/consume drugs.
  - true_religion 9y ago
    I agree 100%. Homeless people should have other places that accommodate sleeping, bathing, and dealing/consuming drugs during the daytime. The problem is in the US, they generally only have night-time accommodation and even those have strict limits.
    - dleslie 9y ago
      Absolutely. Every time I visit the USA I'm floored by the absence of public spaces and facilities for the lower class and impoverished. It's truly amazing how poorly it seems they handle their national wealth.
bogomipz 9y ago
>"But cities like LA utilize libraries as refugees for homeless people which completely destroys the purpose." Isn't the purpose of a public library to collect, preserve and disseminate information freely to the public? Please explain how a homeless person "destroys" those purposes when they participate? >"It should be a refuge for people working hard and trying to excel in life, not a place for people who have given up on life." That view on what a library's purpose is seems uniquely and selfishly your own. It's interesting that you declare homeless as "people who have given up on life" yet you yourself have apparently given up on them as human beings. Honestly it sounds like you could stand to learn a little empathy.
- noir_lord 9y ago
  Thank you for replying to GP with a politeness I wouldn't have managed. I hope he never has mental health issues or similar that result in homelessness.
- Turing_Machine 9y ago
  "Isn't the purpose of a public library to collect, preserve and disseminate information freely to the public? Please explain how a homeless person "destroys" those purposes when they participate?" By destroying books and furniture, screaming loudly when people are trying to read and becoming violent, among other things. Next question.
  - bogomipz 9y ago
    >"By destroying books and furniture, screaming loudly when people are trying to read and becoming violent, among other things" Really are all homeless people acting that way? I have seen plenty of suburban teenagers in libraries do some of those same things. Why is it different if it's homeless? By the way your "next question" comment is quite a display of arrogance. Seriously who goes around saying that?
    - Turing_Machine 9y ago
      "Really are all homeless people acting that way?" No. The ones that aren't, aren't a problem. If anyone has proposed ejecting homeless people who are behaving in a civilized manner, I haven't seen it. Have you? "By the way your "next question" comment is quite a display of arrogance." Your feigned ignorance of the fact that crazy/drunk homeless people disrupt the library deserved it. To expand: If a homeless person (or any other person -- I don't actually care if the guy is homeless or Bill Gates) can comport themselves in the library in a civilized manner, they are welcome there as far as I'm concerned. If they can't, they aren't. That would include: 1) Not shitting and pissing in the book stacks, or littering them with used condoms and needles. 2) Not yelling obscenities or incoherencies, whether due to intoxication, mental illness, or both. 3) Not pulling weapons on the other patrons or staff, trying to fight them, or making verbal threats to them. 4) If using the public computers, not engaging in public masturbation, playing loud porn videos, etc. Should there be a place for people who can't control themselves to this minimal extent to go? Yes. Should that place be the library? No.
greenyouse 9y ago
The situation is the same in Minneapolis but so what? I've been a library patron since I was a little kid and spent time there weekly for the last few years. The majority of people at the library are homeless or low income and yes they take up seating. They're just people though. If it was filled by academics or suits would the limited seating be such an issue? Maybe the library means different things to different people. For them it's a place to loiter with air conditioning and free wifi. For upper and middle class, a place to gain knowledge or have fun. For aspiring writers, a place to attend workshops and talk with other authors. Does it matter if they loiter though? I've taken naps and played with my phone at the library too. In over fifteen years of going to the library, I've only ever had one homeless person be aggressive towards me and security gave them the boot right away. You're probably more likely to be mugged on the street than attacked while reading a book at the library. This feels more like an image problem. Being surrounded by poor people may not feel good but I don't see a problem with it. They're just people doing something at the library. More power to them if they're using the library for job resources or want free internet access.
- mahyarm 9y ago
  I'm guessing the homeless in your area don't use the library pillars as a toliet daily and smell like something similar.

scarmig 9y ago

An ex of mine had a knife pulled on her by a (presumably homeless) man for no reason in the main SF public library. There's an inherent tension between making a space available to homeless people and making it available to all members of the public.

ZenoArrow 9y ago
That sounds more like a mental health issue though. I just hope the US government puts in single payer healthcare so resources can be allocated to deal with it properly.
- knodi123 9y ago
  > That sounds more like a mental health issue though Yes, absolutely, the primary causes of homelessness are drug addiction and mental health issues. There are other causes, and I'd never advocate being callous or dismissive toward the homeless- but this is the reason people find large concentrations of them off-putting.
  - ZenoArrow 9y ago
    I'm not disagreeing with you. I'll hopefully never fully understand what it feels like to have someone you're close to being threatened with a knife, but I can imagine it's horrible, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. What I am saying is that in order to cut down on that behaviour, we need to stop the problem at the source. To my knowledge, no country has ever managed to fully eradicate homelessness, but other places have had success in reducing drug addiction and mental health issues. If those issues are tackled, the issues surrounding homelessness should be greatly reduced, including a large reduction in violent and/or erratic behaviour. Trust is hard to build once it's broken, and I'm not asking you to forgive anyone, but we have to look beyond our current hardships if we want a future that's worth looking forward to.
    - scarmig 9y ago
      Everything there is factually true. But I hate the idea that we aren't allowed to do anything to improve quality of life of the non-homeless before homelessness as an issue is solved. Another example: literally every single night, a homeless person sets up a tent with a bunch of trash in my building's fire escape. If there were a fire and we had to use it, it'd pretty much be inaccessible. It's possible to call the city, but they don't fix it overnight, which is kind of the point. And installing a gate in the fire escape alcove is illegal, because the gate would apparently encroach onto public property. So what's to be done? Should I just accept that I should just literally die in a fire, for the sake of a homeless person having a place to sleep? And of course it's easy to say, "well in an ideal world there'd be a bed for them!" Unfortunately the world we live in isn't ideal, but anytime anyone complains about quality of life issues, "homeless advocates" will demand that you solve a century old national problem before granting you have even the slightest right to complain.
      - istjohn 9y ago
        You make it sound like solving homelessness would require a Manhattan Project-like effort. It's not a trivial problem, but the solution is within easy reach of our society if we had the will. What should be done? Give the poor guy a freaking bed with a roof over his head! Why don't you just say we need to take care of that guy so he doesn't have to sleep on your fire escape? You make it sound like you think that would be asking too much of society. Like it's obvious that would be too much. That guy's going to sleep outside, so the least society can do is make sure he's not doing it somewhere that you don't have to worry about tripping over in case of a fire. No! There is no good reason anyone should have to sleep outside in this country. And as long as people do have to sleep outside, those of us who sleep comfortably in our homes should respond to their presence not with disgust but with action.
        closeparen 9y ago
        Do I have your position correctly, that scarmig is morally obligated to die in fire unless they can pay the rent on an apartment for this person? What happens when a second person starts sleeping there? How many apartments must scarmig rent before they are allowed to evacuate in case of fire? What if scarmig doesn't make a high enough multiple of the minimum viable rental price? Have you just decided they're obligated to die because they don't make enough money? That's kind of ironic. >Why don't you just say we need to take care of that guy so he doesn't have to sleep on your fire escape? Because if saying that conjured shelter beds into existence, we wouldn't have a homeless problem anymore. >the solution is within easy reach of our society if we had the will. I don't think the American people could message "fuck poor people" any louder or any clearer than they just did by electing Trump. The American electorate doesn't lack the will to help the downtrodden, it actively wills them to die. Are we obligated to fight the good fight? Sure. Are we obligated to die in fires unless we achieve a 100% reversal of the poiltical climate? No. > not with disgust but with action. There is no action you can take that will move the needle on homelessness anytime soon. At best, there are actions that a few hundred million people could take together that would achieve a marginal reduction in the problem in in a few decades.
ransom1538 9y ago
If you live in SF long enough, a knife will be pulled on you eventually. (Happened to me and a few of my friends.) The trick is to just run. To my astonishment this isn't the reaction of most people.
- coryrc 9y ago
  They run all the way to the suburbs, where their environmental impact doubles, but at least they can go to the library without getting stabbed.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- zghst 9y ago
  The first part of your comment is correct, that is very much true. I hope though that no one ever turns to expose their back to the assailant to make a run

drawnwren 9y ago

This is unfortunately accurate for SF also. Luckily we have the Mechanic's Institute which is a relatively inexpensive private library and some of the small neighborhood libraries are still places for people to learn. However, the main one is more of a homeless respite than a place I enjoy working.

ZenoArrow 9y ago
I've never been to a library in SF, so I don't know what they're like, but is being close to homeless people a distraction? Is it a noise thing? In my local library there are often one or two people that could be homeless, but they were mostly quiet and not causing any fuss.
- drawnwren 9y ago
  In the SF main library, it's mostly a smell thing for me. I would feel the same as you if I didn't have to feel like I was reading a book in a sewer. I agree, I don't care about the socioeconomic status of the library patrons.
  - ZenoArrow 9y ago
    I'm glad we agree on the socioeconomic aspects of homelessness, and I can understand that the smell could be distracting. Are there many programs to help the homeless in SF? From what little I know, I do get the impression that issues surrounding homelessness are becoming a major concern in SF.
    - drawnwren 9y ago
      According to this SF Chronicle article [1], SF spent $241m to combat homelessness in 2015-16. Homelessness is a major concern in SF, but as with everything here - the politics around it are very complicated. 1: http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/S-F-spends-record-241-million-on-homeless-6808319.php http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/S-F-spends-record...

codehusker 9y ago

What is your proposed solution? How does one limit a free, public resource to only people with homes? A literal smell test? How do people without homes "completely destroy the purpose"? Are they stealing books? Breaking computers? Barricading the doors? Do you really believe that all people without homes have "given up on life"? Not a single one is "working hard and trying to excel in life"? Have you heard of working people without homes? Particularly in LA, SF, et al. where the cost of a home vastly exceeds the income of many people? Do you think education could be a productive method for reducing the number of people without homes?

irq11 9y ago
Rules. No sleeping. No drug use. No bathing in the restrooms. No shitting on anything. No violent or threatening behavior. Period. Then enforce those rules. One violation, and you're out. Two, and you're out for good. Librarians know who the troublemakers are. They just have no power to do anything about them. It's not illegal to be homeless, but that doesn't mean you should be allowed to do violent, illegal or disgusting things without consequence.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- lebanon_tn 9y ago
  The library my spouse worked at was terrified of being sued (happened to a neighboring city) and they aren't allowed to touch unattended belongings.
  - learc83 9y ago
    Why are they so afraid of being sued? There are plenty of other public spaces that don't have a problem removing people for similar behavior. Most people maintaining public spaces view unattended bags as a public safety threat.
    - ethbro 9y ago

tylerflick 9y ago

> But cities like LA utilize libraries as refugees for homeless people which completely destroys the purpose. I defiantly see this happening in Pasadena. The main library has become a refuge from the summer heat, but I feel like this drives others from using it.

moron4hire 9y ago

Homeless people are typically people with mental health issues who are unable to find treatment, due to lack of money, insurance, or having been discharged early from state mental health facilities after budget cut backs. Not "people who have given up on life".

icantdrive55 9y ago

They just gave up, and that's the reason? You're probably young, and have a wonderful support sysyem (these days, a rich, sympathetic father), but be careful about throwing around aspersions. Life will throw you some real curves. It might get so ugly, you will look back upon your youth idealism and literally cry?

icebraining 9y ago
Like a Rolling Stone

whyenot 9y ago

This is a real problem, and one that is difficult to address. San Jose's MLK Library (also shared with San Jose State University) is the day time destination for much of the city's homeless population. Who can blame them -- it's a safe cool place to stay and sleep during the day. Unfortunately, this limits the space that is available for people to work and study. There have also been two suicides in the past year (people jumping from the 7th floor balcony into the central atrium -- it's now being walled off to prevent this).

ajmurmann 9y ago
This is such a shame. Despite not having been there in a long time I have very find memories of studying in that beautiful building.

WalterBright 9y ago

Maybe build another building next to the library for people who want a refuge but not books. Have a few amenities to attract the homeless there, like bathrooms, air conditioning, water, a few snacks, laptops for internet porn, a couple security guards to prevent fights and predation, etc. Make it more attractive for the homeless than the library.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

madeofpalk 9y ago

> a refuge for people working hard and trying to excel in life, not a place for people who have given up on life What an interesting take.

zghst 9y ago

That sounds like a very good approach, a source of knowledge and public coworking space.

dleslie 9y ago

Homeless people deserve access to the knowledge and comfort of a library. It _shouldn't_ be a place of exclusion predicated upon social class.

remir 9y ago
It shouldn't be a refuge to homeless people either. You go to the library to read, study, look at things on the computer if you don't have access to one. Everybody agrees that homeless people should have access to knowledge, but a library is not a place to sleep, bathe and deal/consume drugs.
- true_religion 9y ago
  I agree 100%. Homeless people should have other places that accommodate sleeping, bathing, and dealing/consuming drugs during the daytime. The problem is in the US, they generally only have night-time accommodation and even those have strict limits.
  - dleslie 9y ago
    Absolutely. Every time I visit the USA I'm floored by the absence of public spaces and facilities for the lower class and impoverished. It's truly amazing how poorly it seems they handle their national wealth.

bogomipz 9y ago

>"But cities like LA utilize libraries as refugees for homeless people which completely destroys the purpose." Isn't the purpose of a public library to collect, preserve and disseminate information freely to the public? Please explain how a homeless person "destroys" those purposes when they participate? >"It should be a refuge for people working hard and trying to excel in life, not a place for people who have given up on life." That view on what a library's purpose is seems uniquely and selfishly your own. It's interesting that you declare homeless as "people who have given up on life" yet you yourself have apparently given up on them as human beings. Honestly it sounds like you could stand to learn a little empathy.

noir_lord 9y ago
Thank you for replying to GP with a politeness I wouldn't have managed. I hope he never has mental health issues or similar that result in homelessness.
Turing_Machine 9y ago
"Isn't the purpose of a public library to collect, preserve and disseminate information freely to the public? Please explain how a homeless person "destroys" those purposes when they participate?" By destroying books and furniture, screaming loudly when people are trying to read and becoming violent, among other things. Next question.
- bogomipz 9y ago
  >"By destroying books and furniture, screaming loudly when people are trying to read and becoming violent, among other things" Really are all homeless people acting that way? I have seen plenty of suburban teenagers in libraries do some of those same things. Why is it different if it's homeless? By the way your "next question" comment is quite a display of arrogance. Seriously who goes around saying that?
  - Turing_Machine 9y ago
    "Really are all homeless people acting that way?" No. The ones that aren't, aren't a problem. If anyone has proposed ejecting homeless people who are behaving in a civilized manner, I haven't seen it. Have you? "By the way your "next question" comment is quite a display of arrogance." Your feigned ignorance of the fact that crazy/drunk homeless people disrupt the library deserved it. To expand: If a homeless person (or any other person -- I don't actually care if the guy is homeless or Bill Gates) can comport themselves in the library in a civilized manner, they are welcome there as far as I'm concerned. If they can't, they aren't. That would include: 1) Not shitting and pissing in the book stacks, or littering them with used condoms and needles. 2) Not yelling obscenities or incoherencies, whether due to intoxication, mental illness, or both. 3) Not pulling weapons on the other patrons or staff, trying to fight them, or making verbal threats to them. 4) If using the public computers, not engaging in public masturbation, playing loud porn videos, etc. Should there be a place for people who can't control themselves to this minimal extent to go? Yes. Should that place be the library? No.

greenyouse 9y ago

The situation is the same in Minneapolis but so what? I've been a library patron since I was a little kid and spent time there weekly for the last few years. The majority of people at the library are homeless or low income and yes they take up seating. They're just people though. If it was filled by academics or suits would the limited seating be such an issue? Maybe the library means different things to different people. For them it's a place to loiter with air conditioning and free wifi. For upper and middle class, a place to gain knowledge or have fun. For aspiring writers, a place to attend workshops and talk with other authors. Does it matter if they loiter though? I've taken naps and played with my phone at the library too. In over fifteen years of going to the library, I've only ever had one homeless person be aggressive towards me and security gave them the boot right away. You're probably more likely to be mugged on the street than attacked while reading a book at the library. This feels more like an image problem. Being surrounded by poor people may not feel good but I don't see a problem with it. They're just people doing something at the library. More power to them if they're using the library for job resources or want free internet access.

mahyarm 9y ago
I'm guessing the homeless in your area don't use the library pillars as a toliet daily and smell like something similar.