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One consideration in the law's distinction might be that the driver features on touch screens are designed to reduce required attention (or at least consider it

One consideration in the law's distinction might be that the driver features on touch screens are designed to reduce required attention (or at least consider it during design), while typing a text requires a lot of effort and distraction because phone UX can assume your focus. Touch doesn't really matter, though; you can get similar distraction manipulating even a relatively simple radio, and people do hurt themselves playing with the radio. There is also a front passenger to consider, though I do concede that point when alone.

lj3 9y ago
> you can get similar distraction manipulating a radio. You can manipulate a radio without looking at it. You can't do the same with a touchscreen. There are laws against texting and driving for a reason.
- jsmthrowaway 9y ago
  It's been many years since I've met a glance-free radio. Even the barebones tape deck package usually has source buttons, you have to glance if you're looking for a station, you invoke the part of your brain to remember the frequency of the station you like or was it preset 6, etc etc. If you're just seeking from steering wheel buttons, sure, but then you also have a timing distraction to push the button to stop and oh crap I missed it and now I have to tune back. And tuning toward a specific destination with the Tune buttons (tap-tap-tap-tap or tap-hold-miss-static-tap-tap with many glances thrown in) is about as distracting as texting, I'd wager. There's a lot of "higher order" and potentially distracting UX in manipulating a radio, versus a hot/cold switch. I don't think touch screens add much; I honestly think the control rearrangement capability actually improves UX for distraction purposes, like directly tapping a visual logo, for example, which is a lot faster to recognize than a frequency or channel number or dragging a virtual "tuner" along the "spectrum" with a Tune+ button.
  - lj3 9y ago
    I've yet to meet a non-glance-free radio. Then again, the latest car I've ever owned is from 2003. I can believe tactile buttons went the way of the dinosaur about the time the iPhone was created (2008?)
    - jsmthrowaway 9y ago
      There's more to what I'm saying than the buttons. I am actually alleging that yours is more distracting than you think with the input technology being a minor point compared to your brain involvement, and I would say the same of my '94 Accord.
  - zippergz 9y ago
    I don't entirely disagree. Screwing with the radio while driving can be distracting no matter what kind of radio you have. But on my current car, I control the radio with click wheels on the steering wheel and a small display right in front of the driver, between the speedometer and tachometer (side note, I also get navigation cues on the same screen). So I can manipulate the radio without taking my hands off the wheel at all, and if I need to look at the screen, I glance directly down just as I would to look at the speed. Reaching and looking over to the right, to manipulate something with no tactile feedback seems different to me. A bigger one is the climate control. I adjust the climate control in my car multiple times per day, every day, without ever glancing at it. I know which knobs to turn and I get the click feedback to know how much I've turned them. Of course, I haven't tried the Model 3 touch screen (I've played with the one in the Model S, but not extensively), so I can't say for sure. But intuitively it's hard for me to understand how it wouldn't be different.
- jmiserez 9y ago
  Texting also used to be something you could do without looking on the old T9 phones, and the law still forbade it. Touchscreen phones are a relatively new invention.
- sliken 9y ago
  From what I can tell the model 3 has various modes that you get with a single click. Not sure if you can do the same with a voice commands. But once in the mode, say adjusting the steering wheel, it's the two dials on the steering wheel that control it. Similar for directing the airflow, moving the seats, changing temperature, radio volume, etc. So sure you have to possibly glance quickly (just like most today's radios), but then you can twiddle all you want without looking and just using your thumbs on the steering wheel.
  - lj3 9y ago
    Yeah, I saw that. I have to admit, that's a hell of a lot better than I thought it was going to be, especially if the voice commands work. I would still rather be able to see the speed without looking all the way down to the touchscreen, but I suppose that's what after market is for. I really like those holographic displays that show the speed right on the windshield. Or I could just use an old phone.
zippergz 9y ago
Again, maybe it's just me, but I think touch matters because with physical dials I can find them by feel and manipulate them without looking away at all. I'm sure as you become more familiar with the touch screen, it gets easier, but I can't see how it would ever be as easy without looking as a physical button is. I'm not saying that every single control in the car needs a dedicated physical button or knob, but really basic stuff that I'm manipulating all the time, I want real buttons.
- sliken 9y ago
  The model 3 has 2 dials, one to each side of the steering wheel.
zippergz 9y ago
By the way, the California law does not ban texting. It bans ALL use of a cell phone unless it's in hands-free mode. "California’s distracted driving law prohibits all use of a handheld wireless device while driving, unless the motorist operates a device in voice-operated, hands-free mode. A previous incarnation of the law restricted only “text-based” communications, but the current version covers all wireless device functions." http://www.drivinglaws.org/sb1613.php http://www.drivinglaws.org/sb1613.php
- secabeen 9y ago
  Technically that law even bans CB radio using a handheld mic.

lj3 9y ago

> you can get similar distraction manipulating a radio. You can manipulate a radio without looking at it. You can't do the same with a touchscreen. There are laws against texting and driving for a reason.

jsmthrowaway 9y ago
It's been many years since I've met a glance-free radio. Even the barebones tape deck package usually has source buttons, you have to glance if you're looking for a station, you invoke the part of your brain to remember the frequency of the station you like or was it preset 6, etc etc. If you're just seeking from steering wheel buttons, sure, but then you also have a timing distraction to push the button to stop and oh crap I missed it and now I have to tune back. And tuning toward a specific destination with the Tune buttons (tap-tap-tap-tap or tap-hold-miss-static-tap-tap with many glances thrown in) is about as distracting as texting, I'd wager. There's a lot of "higher order" and potentially distracting UX in manipulating a radio, versus a hot/cold switch. I don't think touch screens add much; I honestly think the control rearrangement capability actually improves UX for distraction purposes, like directly tapping a visual logo, for example, which is a lot faster to recognize than a frequency or channel number or dragging a virtual "tuner" along the "spectrum" with a Tune+ button.
- lj3 9y ago
  I've yet to meet a non-glance-free radio. Then again, the latest car I've ever owned is from 2003. I can believe tactile buttons went the way of the dinosaur about the time the iPhone was created (2008?)
  - jsmthrowaway 9y ago
    There's more to what I'm saying than the buttons. I am actually alleging that yours is more distracting than you think with the input technology being a minor point compared to your brain involvement, and I would say the same of my '94 Accord.
- zippergz 9y ago
  I don't entirely disagree. Screwing with the radio while driving can be distracting no matter what kind of radio you have. But on my current car, I control the radio with click wheels on the steering wheel and a small display right in front of the driver, between the speedometer and tachometer (side note, I also get navigation cues on the same screen). So I can manipulate the radio without taking my hands off the wheel at all, and if I need to look at the screen, I glance directly down just as I would to look at the speed. Reaching and looking over to the right, to manipulate something with no tactile feedback seems different to me. A bigger one is the climate control. I adjust the climate control in my car multiple times per day, every day, without ever glancing at it. I know which knobs to turn and I get the click feedback to know how much I've turned them. Of course, I haven't tried the Model 3 touch screen (I've played with the one in the Model S, but not extensively), so I can't say for sure. But intuitively it's hard for me to understand how it wouldn't be different.
jmiserez 9y ago
Texting also used to be something you could do without looking on the old T9 phones, and the law still forbade it. Touchscreen phones are a relatively new invention.
sliken 9y ago
From what I can tell the model 3 has various modes that you get with a single click. Not sure if you can do the same with a voice commands. But once in the mode, say adjusting the steering wheel, it's the two dials on the steering wheel that control it. Similar for directing the airflow, moving the seats, changing temperature, radio volume, etc. So sure you have to possibly glance quickly (just like most today's radios), but then you can twiddle all you want without looking and just using your thumbs on the steering wheel.
- lj3 9y ago
  Yeah, I saw that. I have to admit, that's a hell of a lot better than I thought it was going to be, especially if the voice commands work. I would still rather be able to see the speed without looking all the way down to the touchscreen, but I suppose that's what after market is for. I really like those holographic displays that show the speed right on the windshield. Or I could just use an old phone.

zippergz 9y ago

Again, maybe it's just me, but I think touch matters because with physical dials I can find them by feel and manipulate them without looking away at all. I'm sure as you become more familiar with the touch screen, it gets easier, but I can't see how it would ever be as easy without looking as a physical button is. I'm not saying that every single control in the car needs a dedicated physical button or knob, but really basic stuff that I'm manipulating all the time, I want real buttons.

sliken 9y ago
The model 3 has 2 dials, one to each side of the steering wheel.

zippergz 9y ago

By the way, the California law does not ban texting. It bans ALL use of a cell phone unless it's in hands-free mode. "California’s distracted driving law prohibits all use of a handheld wireless device while driving, unless the motorist operates a device in voice-operated, hands-free mode. A previous incarnation of the law restricted only “text-based” communications, but the current version covers all wireless device functions." http://www.drivinglaws.org/sb1613.php http://www.drivinglaws.org/sb1613.php

secabeen 9y ago
Technically that law even bans CB radio using a handheld mic.