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there's nothing foggy about the distinction between getting paid for your work versus not getting paid. worrying about your ability to pay bills each month has

there's nothing foggy about the distinction between getting paid for your work versus not getting paid. worrying about your ability to pay bills each month has a wonderful de-fogging effect.

Tichy 16y ago
There is no fundamental right to being paid for your work. If you want to be paid, you have to do work that people are willing to pay for. Otherwise I could just dig a hole in front of your front door and ask you to pay me for it.
- mkramlich 16y ago
  You have the right to exchange in voluntary exchanges for your work. You have the right to make the fruits of your work available for sale to others, and only under your terms. Others are free to choose to buy it, or not, under the sellers conditions. Neither side is compelled to setup the potential for this exchange, nor, to engage in this exchange. If you dug a hole in front of my house's front door and then demanded to be paid for it that would be unethical. It is true I would not pay you, but it is not because I had not requested you to do that "work" for me. Instead, I would not pay you because you (1) trespassed, (2) damaged my property, (3) caused blockage to my front door, and (4) are now essentially blackmailing into paying you to undo the damage you have done -- ALL of which was against my wishes. Therefore, I would refuse for reasons which are very similar to why I think Jason was right and Eleanor was wrong.
  - Tichy 16y ago
    I think you are a bit overexcited about this topic and not thinking things through very clearly. Maybe the discussion can better be continued some other time, with less emotions.
- lookACamel 16y ago
  These kind of arguments lead to nowhere. The reason? There are no fundamental rights whatsoever. There is no such thing as a right to life, liberty, happiness, property or any of that bullcrap. All rights are artificially created. (Not that I'm against that.)
lookACamel 16y ago
You mean a wonderful biasing effect. Once you start worrying about something as important as paying your bills, your opinions will be strongly biased towards a world-model that make it easier for you to do so.

there's nothing foggy about the distinction between getting paid for your work versus not getting paid. worrying about your ability to pay bills each month has a wonderful de-fogging effect.

Tichy 16y ago

There is no fundamental right to being paid for your work. If you want to be paid, you have to do work that people are willing to pay for. Otherwise I could just dig a hole in front of your front door and ask you to pay me for it.

mkramlich 16y ago
You have the right to exchange in voluntary exchanges for your work. You have the right to make the fruits of your work available for sale to others, and only under your terms. Others are free to choose to buy it, or not, under the sellers conditions. Neither side is compelled to setup the potential for this exchange, nor, to engage in this exchange. If you dug a hole in front of my house's front door and then demanded to be paid for it that would be unethical. It is true I would not pay you, but it is not because I had not requested you to do that "work" for me. Instead, I would not pay you because you (1) trespassed, (2) damaged my property, (3) caused blockage to my front door, and (4) are now essentially blackmailing into paying you to undo the damage you have done -- ALL of which was against my wishes. Therefore, I would refuse for reasons which are very similar to why I think Jason was right and Eleanor was wrong.
- Tichy 16y ago
  I think you are a bit overexcited about this topic and not thinking things through very clearly. Maybe the discussion can better be continued some other time, with less emotions.
lookACamel 16y ago
These kind of arguments lead to nowhere. The reason? There are no fundamental rights whatsoever. There is no such thing as a right to life, liberty, happiness, property or any of that bullcrap. All rights are artificially created. (Not that I'm against that.)

lookACamel 16y ago

You mean a wonderful biasing effect. Once you start worrying about something as important as paying your bills, your opinions will be strongly biased towards a world-model that make it easier for you to do so.