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> Who really cares if this company collects and/or sells mapping data of our floors? Me. And not to put too fine a point on it, the people in the market for bu

by __jal 9y ago

> Who really cares if this company collects and/or sells mapping data of our floors? Me. And not to put too fine a point on it, the people in the market for buying and selling this data. > Why should I be worried if Amazon knows the distance between my couch and coffee table? I'm not going to presume to speak for you. > Isn't our outrage better preserved for when our privacy is truly invaded? ...So don't speak for me when deciding what is an isn't an invasion of privacy. I find this to be a significant invasion, and so do many other folks, some of whom are giving you possible answers to your question. In a lot of ways, this is no different than people claiming the FB 'true name' policy doesn't matter/is actually a positive. Maybe for them, but not for the former partner of an abusive spouse, or the gay kid in Russia or Alabama. Don't presume that your tolerance for data leakage is the same as everyone else's. More generally, the point is that information like this just should be default-private. There is zero reason for me to want information like this to be shared with random third-parties. If iRobot or whomever wants to "enhance the value of their connected devices" with private data about me and/or my possessions, let them approach me and convince me to share it, not just blandly write some bullshit privacy policy and take it from a device I purchased. I love innovation, new toys, etc. But this rush to sneakily inventory/quantify/spy on me, my home, possessions and relations is awful, and will have creepy outcomes. It won't happen to me, because I won't install this shit in my home or use social media, but it will happen. Do what you like with your own sense of privacy, but don't presume to speak for anyone else about what a "true invasion" might be.

slg 9y ago
>In a lot of ways, this is no different than people claiming the FB 'true name' policy doesn't matter/is actually a positive. Maybe for them, but not for the former partner of an abusive spouse, or the gay kid in Russia or Alabama. This is exactly what I am talking about. Do you honestly see no hyperbole in this? Roomba having a map of my floors is no different than a policy that leads to gay kids in Russia being thrown in jail. Things aren't binary. We can deal with them in nuance. Equating these two together weakens your argument against both of them.
- CamperBob2 9y ago
  This is exactly what I am talking about. Do you honestly see no hyperbole in this? Roomba having a map of my floors is no different than a policy that leads to gay kids in Russia being thrown in jail. Things aren't binary. We can deal with them in nuance. Equating these two together weakens your argument against both of them. yourapostasy's post elsewhere in the thread ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14876581 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14876581 ) is worth considering before dismissing these concerns as "hyperbole." When it comes to Big Data -- and Big Metadata, for that matter -- quantity has a quality all its own. If this type of data weren't valuable, and hence worth safeguarding, there would be no market for it.
  - Karunamon 9y ago
    So where's the market for piecemeal vacuum-robot-collected floor plans?
    - IncRnd 9y ago
      > So where's the market for piecemeal vacuum-robot-collected floor plans? When iRobot releases their commercial automatic floor cleaning robot, consider your restricted floor-plans as mapped. Even today, there's a market eerily similar to the market of videos from hijacked xbox cameras in order to show room contents. There are lots of other markets I can think of off the top of my head. Don't discount what data can reveal.
- __jal 9y ago
  > We can deal with them in nuance. I'd like to agree with you, but I'm becoming less sure of that with every day. For instance, you breezed right past my point (that privacy risks are different for different people) to hammer more on your presumptuous assertion that floor maps don't (or maybe you mean shouldn't) matter to anyone.
  - bentruyman 9y ago
    Sure, and as someone who owns an older model, this feature (as I'm learning about it today) actually sounds compelling for my particular use case. But I also put covers/tape over my webcams. So sure, privacy concerns are all relative. However, in this case, I still cannot understand all the negativity still being directed toward iRobot. We know data they're collecting, we know why they're collecting it, and uploading mapping data is opt-in. If any of these things concerns you, can you just not buy it and move on?
TFortunato 9y ago
Hey jal, just to let you know the iRobot privacy policy and device data collection and retention policy does state that data will not be shared, divulged or sold to any third party without your express informed consent on a case by case basis, and that data is not even collected by them unless you opt-in and register your robot with them. The bots are fully functional as a standalone device without internet connectivity. Additionally you can contact them at any time to have your private data removed from their servers which they are happy to do. Full disclosure: I am a former iRobot engineer, and also a big privacy proponent. I also had some feelings about a camera enabled mapping robot when I first learned about the project, but I can tell you that the people there take privacy and data security VERY seriously, and really are trying to respect their customers as much as possible. Unfortunatley the message that iRobot wanted to allow you to share your mapping data if you wanted to for enabling smart home applications got spun pretty quickly into "iRobot wants to sell your data!")

by __jal 9y ago

slg 9y ago

>In a lot of ways, this is no different than people claiming the FB 'true name' policy doesn't matter/is actually a positive. Maybe for them, but not for the former partner of an abusive spouse, or the gay kid in Russia or Alabama. This is exactly what I am talking about. Do you honestly see no hyperbole in this? Roomba having a map of my floors is no different than a policy that leads to gay kids in Russia being thrown in jail. Things aren't binary. We can deal with them in nuance. Equating these two together weakens your argument against both of them.

CamperBob2 9y ago
This is exactly what I am talking about. Do you honestly see no hyperbole in this? Roomba having a map of my floors is no different than a policy that leads to gay kids in Russia being thrown in jail. Things aren't binary. We can deal with them in nuance. Equating these two together weakens your argument against both of them. yourapostasy's post elsewhere in the thread ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14876581 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14876581 ) is worth considering before dismissing these concerns as "hyperbole." When it comes to Big Data -- and Big Metadata, for that matter -- quantity has a quality all its own. If this type of data weren't valuable, and hence worth safeguarding, there would be no market for it.
- Karunamon 9y ago
  So where's the market for piecemeal vacuum-robot-collected floor plans?
  - IncRnd 9y ago
    > So where's the market for piecemeal vacuum-robot-collected floor plans? When iRobot releases their commercial automatic floor cleaning robot, consider your restricted floor-plans as mapped. Even today, there's a market eerily similar to the market of videos from hijacked xbox cameras in order to show room contents. There are lots of other markets I can think of off the top of my head. Don't discount what data can reveal.
__jal 9y ago
> We can deal with them in nuance. I'd like to agree with you, but I'm becoming less sure of that with every day. For instance, you breezed right past my point (that privacy risks are different for different people) to hammer more on your presumptuous assertion that floor maps don't (or maybe you mean shouldn't) matter to anyone.
- bentruyman 9y ago
  Sure, and as someone who owns an older model, this feature (as I'm learning about it today) actually sounds compelling for my particular use case. But I also put covers/tape over my webcams. So sure, privacy concerns are all relative. However, in this case, I still cannot understand all the negativity still being directed toward iRobot. We know data they're collecting, we know why they're collecting it, and uploading mapping data is opt-in. If any of these things concerns you, can you just not buy it and move on?

TFortunato 9y ago

Hey jal, just to let you know the iRobot privacy policy and device data collection and retention policy does state that data will not be shared, divulged or sold to any third party without your express informed consent on a case by case basis, and that data is not even collected by them unless you opt-in and register your robot with them. The bots are fully functional as a standalone device without internet connectivity. Additionally you can contact them at any time to have your private data removed from their servers which they are happy to do. Full disclosure: I am a former iRobot engineer, and also a big privacy proponent. I also had some feelings about a camera enabled mapping robot when I first learned about the project, but I can tell you that the people there take privacy and data security VERY seriously, and really are trying to respect their customers as much as possible. Unfortunatley the message that iRobot wanted to allow you to share your mapping data if you wanted to for enabling smart home applications got spun pretty quickly into "iRobot wants to sell your data!")