4 ms·

That's absurd, neocons may be trying to harness the grassroots power of certain far right groups but their ideology is nearly identical to the ideology of say,

That's absurd, neocons may be trying to harness the grassroots power of certain far right groups but their ideology is nearly identical to the ideology of say, the Clintons or Obama.

mikeash 9y ago
We should look at what they've done to really know who they are. Which is a bit tough, because they've done very little so far, but things like the Muslim/travel ban, attempting to repeal the ACA, cracking down on illegal immigration, and pulling out of the Paris climate agreement indicate a much more extreme right ideology than Clinton or Obama.
- olewhalehunter 9y ago
  None of those policies are "extreme" for the right, let's break those down. >"Muslim" Travel ban Its a blanket policy on ALL travelers from a specific list drafted by Obama for a similar policy he too actually enacted. Muslims were not banned from say, the UK or Pakistan. It is also temporary. Even center leaning right-wingers have concerns about foreigners from unstable nations. >Attempting to repeal the ACA TrumpCare is almost Obamacare-lite, doesn't completely overhaul it, barely right-of-center, and to the more libertarian right-wingers, actually still a very liberal policy. >Cracking down on illegal immigration A solidly right-wing position, not an "extreme" one. >Pulling out of the Paris climate agreement Climate scientists think the Paris agreement is a joke, if we're basing your judgement of this on effectiveness towards combating climate change, even liberal politicians are guilty of being "extreme right" on this one.
  - mikeash 9y ago
    The travel ban was the administration's attempt to do a "Muslim ban" legally. Yes, it sucks as a Muslim ban, but that's still what it's trying to do. As for "temporary," that's an obvious lie by the administration. They claimed that it was a temporary thing to keep the country safe while they reviewed how people from those countries are vetted. The original ban would have expired by now, so they've had enough time to review their vetting process according to their own metrics, but the administration is still fighting for it in court. Why would they do that unless it was intended to be perpetually renewed? As far as the ACA goes, the "skinny repeal" that failed in the Senate yesterday by a single vote was definitely not Obamacare-lite. It would have basically torched the entire medical insurance system by retaining the protections for pre-existing conditions while removing the individual mandate and not replacing it with any other incentive to maintain coverage while healthy. That's rather extreme. On Paris, if climate scientists think the agreement is a joke (and that is, as far as I can tell, not at all true), then the fact that the administration withdrew from it surely demonstrates that they are quite extreme.
    - olewhalehunter 9y ago
      Yes all of these things are extreme from a leftist perspective, but until there are talks of establishing an ethnostate or abolishing the Federal Reserve, they are not extreme right, it would do the left good to find subtler methods of communicating their concerns to the right wing with methods other than calling any policy solidly right of center "extreme". https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/climate/2015-paris-climate-talks/hansen https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/climate/2015...
      - mikeash 9y ago
        Moving the goalposts? If what I said didn't qualify, why did you first argue that the policies weren't what I said they were?

That's absurd, neocons may be trying to harness the grassroots power of certain far right groups but their ideology is nearly identical to the ideology of say, the Clintons or Obama.

mikeash 9y ago

We should look at what they've done to really know who they are. Which is a bit tough, because they've done very little so far, but things like the Muslim/travel ban, attempting to repeal the ACA, cracking down on illegal immigration, and pulling out of the Paris climate agreement indicate a much more extreme right ideology than Clinton or Obama.

olewhalehunter 9y ago
None of those policies are "extreme" for the right, let's break those down. >"Muslim" Travel ban Its a blanket policy on ALL travelers from a specific list drafted by Obama for a similar policy he too actually enacted. Muslims were not banned from say, the UK or Pakistan. It is also temporary. Even center leaning right-wingers have concerns about foreigners from unstable nations. >Attempting to repeal the ACA TrumpCare is almost Obamacare-lite, doesn't completely overhaul it, barely right-of-center, and to the more libertarian right-wingers, actually still a very liberal policy. >Cracking down on illegal immigration A solidly right-wing position, not an "extreme" one. >Pulling out of the Paris climate agreement Climate scientists think the Paris agreement is a joke, if we're basing your judgement of this on effectiveness towards combating climate change, even liberal politicians are guilty of being "extreme right" on this one.
- mikeash 9y ago
  The travel ban was the administration's attempt to do a "Muslim ban" legally. Yes, it sucks as a Muslim ban, but that's still what it's trying to do. As for "temporary," that's an obvious lie by the administration. They claimed that it was a temporary thing to keep the country safe while they reviewed how people from those countries are vetted. The original ban would have expired by now, so they've had enough time to review their vetting process according to their own metrics, but the administration is still fighting for it in court. Why would they do that unless it was intended to be perpetually renewed? As far as the ACA goes, the "skinny repeal" that failed in the Senate yesterday by a single vote was definitely not Obamacare-lite. It would have basically torched the entire medical insurance system by retaining the protections for pre-existing conditions while removing the individual mandate and not replacing it with any other incentive to maintain coverage while healthy. That's rather extreme. On Paris, if climate scientists think the agreement is a joke (and that is, as far as I can tell, not at all true), then the fact that the administration withdrew from it surely demonstrates that they are quite extreme.
  - olewhalehunter 9y ago
    Yes all of these things are extreme from a leftist perspective, but until there are talks of establishing an ethnostate or abolishing the Federal Reserve, they are not extreme right, it would do the left good to find subtler methods of communicating their concerns to the right wing with methods other than calling any policy solidly right of center "extreme". https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/climate/2015-paris-climate-talks/hansen https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/climate/2015...
    - mikeash 9y ago
      Moving the goalposts? If what I said didn't qualify, why did you first argue that the policies weren't what I said they were?