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> "Images used for navigation are NOT sent to the cloud" Maybe I'm just too pessimistic for my own good, but the wording on that still leaves a lot of wiggle r

> "Images used for navigation are NOT sent to the cloud" Maybe I'm just too pessimistic for my own good, but the wording on that still leaves a lot of wiggle room in how it's "images" and "cloud". Not all file formats are images and not all servers are a "cloud". Could just as well used "data"/"upload" and covered all fronts. "Data used for navigation is not uploaded anywhere".

eridius 9y ago
But data is uploaded, if you opt-in to that. If you choose to allow it, the map that the Roomba generates is uploaded to the "cloud", where it's cleaned up and made available in the iRobot HOME app. This was explained in the very next paragraph. They simply cannot say "data is never uploaded" because it's not true, but they can say "images are never uploaded" because it is. And I wouldn't quibble about the usage of "cloud". It's generally understood that if the data is sent to a server outside of the customer's control then that's the "cloud".
TFortunato 9y ago
Hey, w/o getting too specific, speaking as a former iRobot engineer when the 900s were developed / released (unofficial, not representing iRobot, blah blah ) - the privacy implications were thought of a lot when these products were developed. There really aren't any images or data that could be reconstructed / assembled into images ever sent to the cloud, persisted on the device, or available to send to the cloud. I do understand the pessimism, especially with all the privacy horror stories you hear out there, but I can say that Colin / iRobot arent playing games with their words when it comes to this.
- shostack 9y ago
  In your opinion, given the skepticism you observe here, is there something more that iRobot/Colin could do or say that could better alleviate concerns based on your insider knowledge?
  - TFortunato 9y ago
    To be honest I'm not sure, PR, marketing and such is not my strong suit. (Also, just wanted to add that any insider knowledge I share is solely on iRobot culture, and I cant divulge any insider info on technology, only whats publicly available. Sorry for the disclaimer, but this account is tied to my real name, haha!) If anything I would say that there is some good information on the webpage they need to make sure gets out there. I'd also say that they should get out there and talk about their vision for the future more. Colin has talked a lot about his vision of a smart home, and how iRobot can bring a lot to the table by providing users a map of their home that is updated fairly often. As such I think they could get people more excited by not just saying "no we arent selling your data", but by showing the potential. Imagine being able to say "OK google, vacuum all the bedrooms and mop the bathroom", and having it dispatch your roomba and braava. Or saying "Alexa, have you seen the tv remote?" and having it respond "the roomba spotted it inder the couch when cleaning earlier". (Not necessarily saying this is what is being worked on, again just my impressions I got that Colin / the leadership there is more interested in making cool bots and working to make a true smart home a reality, and willing to let users have access and share the kind of data a mapping robot can bring, and less about becoming a data/ad broker.)
- freshhawk 9y ago
  I do kinda believe you, but every company that has been caught doing this says the same things and also has employees (or astroturfers posing as) posting about how they are different. I wouldn't even call it pessimism, it's basic common sense.
  - TFortunato 9y ago
    Totally understood - skepticism is always warranted when it comes to this sort of thing! From my end I always add a disclosure about any current and former employers in when I post anything about them because I'd rather just be honest that I may be biased on the subject! FWIW, I no longer work there, nor do I own any stock - My only interest in defending them is I have great memories of working there, and a lot of friends who are still there! (Again, feel free to take with a grain of salt)
natch 9y ago
Yep, and speaking of weasel words, "sell" is also a weasel word. There's always lease, rent, give, trade, share, expose, exploit, release, etc.

eridius 9y ago

But data is uploaded, if you opt-in to that. If you choose to allow it, the map that the Roomba generates is uploaded to the "cloud", where it's cleaned up and made available in the iRobot HOME app. This was explained in the very next paragraph. They simply cannot say "data is never uploaded" because it's not true, but they can say "images are never uploaded" because it is. And I wouldn't quibble about the usage of "cloud". It's generally understood that if the data is sent to a server outside of the customer's control then that's the "cloud".

TFortunato 9y ago

Hey, w/o getting too specific, speaking as a former iRobot engineer when the 900s were developed / released (unofficial, not representing iRobot, blah blah ) - the privacy implications were thought of a lot when these products were developed. There really aren't any images or data that could be reconstructed / assembled into images ever sent to the cloud, persisted on the device, or available to send to the cloud. I do understand the pessimism, especially with all the privacy horror stories you hear out there, but I can say that Colin / iRobot arent playing games with their words when it comes to this.

shostack 9y ago
In your opinion, given the skepticism you observe here, is there something more that iRobot/Colin could do or say that could better alleviate concerns based on your insider knowledge?
- TFortunato 9y ago
  To be honest I'm not sure, PR, marketing and such is not my strong suit. (Also, just wanted to add that any insider knowledge I share is solely on iRobot culture, and I cant divulge any insider info on technology, only whats publicly available. Sorry for the disclaimer, but this account is tied to my real name, haha!) If anything I would say that there is some good information on the webpage they need to make sure gets out there. I'd also say that they should get out there and talk about their vision for the future more. Colin has talked a lot about his vision of a smart home, and how iRobot can bring a lot to the table by providing users a map of their home that is updated fairly often. As such I think they could get people more excited by not just saying "no we arent selling your data", but by showing the potential. Imagine being able to say "OK google, vacuum all the bedrooms and mop the bathroom", and having it dispatch your roomba and braava. Or saying "Alexa, have you seen the tv remote?" and having it respond "the roomba spotted it inder the couch when cleaning earlier". (Not necessarily saying this is what is being worked on, again just my impressions I got that Colin / the leadership there is more interested in making cool bots and working to make a true smart home a reality, and willing to let users have access and share the kind of data a mapping robot can bring, and less about becoming a data/ad broker.)
freshhawk 9y ago
I do kinda believe you, but every company that has been caught doing this says the same things and also has employees (or astroturfers posing as) posting about how they are different. I wouldn't even call it pessimism, it's basic common sense.
- TFortunato 9y ago
  Totally understood - skepticism is always warranted when it comes to this sort of thing! From my end I always add a disclosure about any current and former employers in when I post anything about them because I'd rather just be honest that I may be biased on the subject! FWIW, I no longer work there, nor do I own any stock - My only interest in defending them is I have great memories of working there, and a lot of friends who are still there! (Again, feel free to take with a grain of salt)

natch 9y ago

Yep, and speaking of weasel words, "sell" is also a weasel word. There's always lease, rent, give, trade, share, expose, exploit, release, etc.