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How to Tell the Truth
- kappi 9y agothis bunch BS written solely from the perspective of american/western culture standards..eastern culture have different perspective and you grow up trusting folks who tell the truth even if it is unpleasant.
- richardkraaij 9y agoBoth perspectives are necessary. This might give guidance to shape positive meaning to the truth and attain trust.
- biztos 9y agoIndeed, sugarcoating the story is lying in some places, de rigueur in others. I come from California, where newcomers usually have difficulty telling true opinions from meaningless pleasantries. (The locals of course can tell.) And I spend a lot of time in Germany, where the imperative towards honesty often leaves politeness strangled in the dust; but also in Hungary, where honesty has a lot to do with who's speaking to whom. But so far I don't have much business experience outside the US, and I wonder whether the interpersonal and/or political norms apply to business. Any insight into how that differs in whichever East you're referring to?
- pdimitar 9y agoI can only speak as an Eastern European: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14878103 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14878103 (FYI: this linked comment is right here in this thread)
- hammock 9y agoInsightful comment. Question for HN: Who are the most successful CEOs in silicon valley tech from East Asian families, and how do they compare to Western ones?
- balls187 9y agoWhy limiting to CEOs in Silicon Valley? And what defines success?
- hammock 9y agoBecause that's who OP is presumably talking to, young tech entrepreneurs in SV with great ambition. The are represents to me an interesting intersection of a lot of East Asian-background talent with Western business ideals, that as parent comment points out can sometimes be at odds with each other. OP being a Western-cultured VC (kingmaker), picking apart this dynamic may be interesting and important. In plainer terms, what happens when your Western VC boss expects you, as an East Asian CEO, to run mass layoffs in a certain way, when your heritage informs you to run them in a completely different way? Or fill-in-the-blank with any other major top-level decision. Thinking honesty/integrity vs. honor/shame/face-saving, etc.
- balls187 9y ago> honor/shame/face-saving Honor/Shame/Face-saving is one factor that hampers many East Asians from go into entrepreneurship. "Work hard in school. Go to a good school. Become successful Doctor." Those who overcome that stigma and go into business probably don't have as much attachment to the honor/shame game.
- cirgue 9y agoDepends on where you are in the US. "The West" is pretty a pretty diverse place in terms of attitudes.
- BlackjackCF 9y agoIs this really true? I'm Chinese and I don't know how true this is. (This is also anecdotal so take from it what you will.) I mean there's always the shallow brutal truths ("you're looking plump" etc) but there's a lot of burying of truths about real shit/straight up denial. I feel like it's less about respect for folks who tell the truth and more about listening to your elders/your superiors and knowing your place in your family/society and being dutiful to that role.
- biztos 9y ago> Who else do you know that’s completely honest? I’ll bet that was much harder to answer. Um, no. Does he really live in such a morally uncentered world that he thinks most people would have difficulty answering this question? (Is the VC world like that?) Of course nobody is 100% honest all the time, that would be pathological. But if you consider yourself an honest person, and live in the same universe I live in, I bet you know a whole bunch of people you consider at least as honest as yourself. If not, that would be very sad, but it would still not be normal.
- richmarr 9y ago> Um, no. Does he really live in such a morally uncentered world... He does explicitly say completely honest, and you admit that nobody is 100% honest all the time. Feel like you're moving the goalposts somewhat here.
- jdmichal 9y agoThe author is the one who moved the goalposts. Here's the opening question: > Are you an honest person? Now, here's the follow-up, emphasis mine: > ... who else do you know that’s completely honest? Those are not the same question, at all. biztos was correct to call it out.
- richmarr 9y ago> The author is the one who moved the goalposts ...biztos was correct to call it out. Yes, there's an extra word in there. I think you're both missing the point. It wouldn't be interesting or valuable for Horowitz to change his honesty benchmark half way through the opening paragraph. He even includes the word "else" in there, reinforcing the equity of the two measures. So, assuming he's not changing his honesty benchmark... nor is Horowitz likely to believe that each individual reader is objectively the only honest person in their network (or one of few). There isn't even any reason to believe the reader is above average in their honesty. That really just leaves one reasonable interpretation in my mind; the point that humans are subjectively more likely to view ourselves as honest compared to others. Whether you agree with this point or not is another matter, but there's plenty of evidence for similar cognitive biases. But yeah, I don't think this article is Shakespeare.
- OzzyB 9y agoWhat's with all the Hip-Hop/Rapper quotes with all these VC blogs? Is this their way to seem "hip and relevant"? Seems pretty forced and out of touch to me, and have being seeing this trend more and more (I think Dave McClure loves Beastie Boys lyrics?!). I guess it's a way for the ultra-rich to seem more "street" and equate their hustle of VC investing w/ the street hustle?
- coenhyde 9y agoBen loves Rap and he has always used Rap quotes.
- GuiA 9y agoA large proportion of rappers who are rich and famous now started literally at the bottom of the barrel - growing up on food stamps, without heating/electricity, etc, and that's what they rap about (there are exceptions of course). This is in contrast with VCs, who grew up (again, with exceptions) in privileged, upper middle to upper class environments, with a silver spoon in their mouth. Hip hop resonates deeply with them because it is the life story they'd like to have (from rags to riches only with a pen and a mic), instead of the one they have (from Stanford to Sand Hill Road only with daddy's checkbook and address book).
- 40acres 9y ago
- hprotagonist 9y agoAt the risk of being "that guy on HN who just quotes poetry": Tell all the truth but tell it slant, Success in circuit lies, Too bright for our infirm delight The truth's superb surprise; As lightning to the children eased With explanation kind, The truth must dazzle gradually Or every man be blind. Emily Dickinson
- Danihan 9y agoI'm generally not a poetry fan, but wow, that is quite impressive.
- hprotagonist 9y agoMiss Dickinson really knew how to throw a punch.
- blahman2 9y agoPlease be that guy more often.
- pumpkin_pie22 9y agoI love how this VC whiteboy thinks quoting rappers is cool. So embarrassing for a16z. His book is also one of the worst I've ever read. The article is not bad however, I agree it's more relevant to Western culture, although Eastern cultures have their fair share of lying and not disturbing the peace ;) Some of these themes were explored in a book called Radical Honesty, which is kinda awesome, but I do think one needs to think in terms of probabilities about this. If the odds of anyone finding out is low enough to not be worth the cost of coming clean, then maybe you shouldn't necessarily divulge all the info. Just use common sense is the main takeaway.
- koverda 9y agoWhich book are you talking about? The Hard Thing About Hard Things?
- alexandercrohde 9y agoSo, I find this article vapid. It basically says -Tell the truth, but assign your own meaning to it-. However, it's been my experience in tech that this is exact behavior a major, major problem at the companies I've worked for. Most startups I worked at insisted they were saving the world in one way or another. The C level probably patted themselves on the back pretty hard for coming up with such an inspiring interpretation. But within a year, it always rung false (based on their actions being entirely inconsistent). This made me trust them less than if they had simply said "We're in this to make money. We're a company, that's what we do," which, in my opinion, is totally okay to admit. For example: - Do not call yourself a family if you have ever let somebody go within 3 months of hiring them. Would your literal family kick you out because they weren't seeing an ROI in 3 months or because you were difficult? - Do not say your mission is to empower one group or another if your actions are not truly in that group's best interest. E.g. giving them credit cards when they're already in debt. - Do not imply that your "door is always open" unless you have the willingness and time to hear some of the ways your company is actually fucked up and act on them. - Do not suggest employees will get rich when you damn well how unlikely it is. - Do not use bullshit euphemisms all the time, such as a massively failing manager being "promoted" to a position with no authority. What your actions are doing is saying "We work in a class system where you can't be fired once you're at a certain level" - Do not imply you're a meritocracy. Your company isn't, it's a handful of narcissistic wealthy people at the top surrounded by sycophantic top-level-managers with actual laborers 3 or more levels down. The idea that individuals can be rated on traits and promoted to "levels" is a laughable oversimplification to anybody who thinks about it. - Do not imply most of your employees will ever be promoted if you know most won't.
- biztos 9y ago> "We work in a class system where you can't be fired once you're at a certain level" But isn't that pretty close to the truth?
- alexandercrohde 9y agoHeh, well then there are 3 ways to handle it: 1. Call it like it is "John failed, but we live in a class system so instead we're moving him to a less important team because we believe in this class system" OR 2. Stop perpetuating that class system and fire people who do bad work, even if they went to Yale. OR 3. Admit to yourself that you're not remotely honest, and don't expect any of your intelligent employees to buy your story either. [i.e. The normal choice]
- carsongross 9y agoTelling the truth will get you fired, ostracized and possibly assaulted today. I don't like it, but telling the truth, like riding a bike to work, is a luxury that only the extremely rich and extremely poor can afford today.
- maym86 9y agoWhat are you talking about? Assulted? How is telling the truth related to riding bikes and wealth?
- oxryly1 9y agoFor my next act, I shall praise Beauty!
- dvt 9y ago> Before Lincoln’s speech and after nearly 100 years of slavery, people did not think of the United States as a country “dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal,” ... Yeah, except for, you know, the second paragraph of the Declaration of Indenpendence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..." Comparing the Gettysburg Address to corporate spin (which is essentially what the article is promoting) is cringeworthy, disrespectful, and woefully out of line.
- burkaman 9y agoThat's the Declaration of Independence. If you look at the beginning of the Constitution, you'll see "Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons." Pretending America's founders were consistent and genuine in declaring "all men are created equal" is cringeworthy, disrespectful, and woefully out of line.
- dvt 9y agoThanks for the correction (doh!). > Pretending America's founders were consistent and genuine in declaring "all men are created equal" is cringeworthy, disrespectful, and woefully out of line. You're attacking a strawman here. I think you missed the salient point.
- lisper 9y ago> Before Lincoln’s speech and after nearly 100 years of slavery, people did not think of the United States as a country “dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal,” but after his speech, no true American believes anything else. Unfortunately, neither of those claims are true. People have thought of the U.S. as a country dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal since Jefferson held that truth to be self-evident. What has changed over time is the definition of the word "men", which, at the time it was written, meant "white male protestant land owners." Today it means something more like, "Straight white, hispanic or Asian (but definitely not black) non-Muslim citizens." It has never meant "all human beings" or even "all U.S. residents" or even "all U.S. citizens." Not even Lincoln believed that blacks and whites are created equal. Yes, he freed the slaves (but only in the states that had seceded) but he never fully subscribed to the idea that blacks should have equal rights to whites [1]. And today you have a justice department arguing that gay people are not entitled to civil rights protections, and that it's not just OK but vital to national security to keep Muslims out of the country. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose. That is the sad truth. [1] http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2007/03/29/what-did-he-really-think-about-race/ http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2007/03/29/what-did-he-reall...
- richardkraaij 9y agoEven if people were created differently, let's work towards a society of equal opportunities for everyone.
- trjordan 9y agoLots of negativity in this thread. I've been there too; plenty of companies I've worked for have blown sunshine while it feels like we're headed straight for the cliffs. The fundamental problem, I think, is that there's frequently an imperfect understanding of the scope of the truth. Missing the sales number feels like the company is failing. But is this a blip, because 2 big deals flaked? Or is this a systematic inability of the sales team to build urgency? 3 of your best engineers quit. All of them have personal reasons for leaving, but was it really because they had started drifting when a director didn't deal with that toxic team 6 months ago? Most of the time, nobody knows. And even if they think they do, they're just guessing and confident. In a practical way, the only thing that really matters is that you have a plan everybody believes in. Telling the truth is crucial, because otherwise your plan feels out of touch. Unfortunately (and this is especially true at startups), nobody knows exactly how the company will go in the next 2-5 years. But you still have to acknowledge the narrow facts and find a narrative that's consistent with them. It always feels optimistic and silly. It always feels like spin. The alternative is to hunker down and pull a salary until the truth is that the company is filing for bankruptcy, at which point the naysayers will have been right all along.
- alexandercrohde 9y agoWhat? I don't understand what you're saying here. It sounds like you're conflating negativity and honesty. Honesty may or may not be negative. If you're Tesla, you can stand proud and say "We are trying to change the world," that is both honest and positive. If you are Zynga, you cannot. There is an alternative to to "spin" that's not pessimistic, it's the middleground called realism.
- harryh 9y agoHe meant that there is negativity in the comments on HN, not in the blog post.
- alexandercrohde 9y agoWell then I don't understand on what basis he's saying "It always feels optimistic and silly. It always feels like spin." If you tell the honest truth "We may fail, I'm not sure, but it's not the end of the world if this company fails, most do" that doesn't sound like silly spin to me.
- cityzen 9y ago"How to Tell the Truth" from the VC's invested in companies like Facebook and Zenefits... I'll pass.
- Danihan 9y agoThe TRUTH is that all people are not "created" equal, by any definable metric. Intelligence, athleticism, charisma, beauty... each are quantifiable and vary massively from person to person. Hell, we don't even pretend to treat people equally under the law. See affirmative action, offering disability benefits, treatment of addicts, etc. But I guess saying that makes me "not a true American" according to this facile, pretentious blog post by SV royalty. Post should be called, "How to Pretend to Tell the Truth in Business."
- pdimitar 9y agoWe the people might not be created equal, but a part of us are aware that in some regards we're disadvantaged and we fight to overcome that disadvantage. So I don't understand your point.
- Danihan 9y agoMy point is that the statement literally isn't truthful in any meaningful way, only symbolically at best -- so it's ironic to make it the centerpiece of a blog post about "honesty".
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- brandonhsiao 9y ago"CEOs should be honest. That seems obvious enough, but it turns out “be honest” is easy to say, but amazingly hard to do. Let’s look at some scenarios to understand why." I don't really see a paradox/conflict here. All the scenarios are basically, the company isn't doing well, but saying so shows weakness. But in that case the bigger possible truth is that maybe the company is doomed and should be shut down. So it seems less a matter of telling the truth to others, and more of admitting it to yourself. If the company isn't doomed, if despite doing badly it has a path out, then that path is part of the truth you should tell employees, and if your assessment is correct they'll stay.
- pdimitar 9y agoThis article feels very USA-specific. As an Eastern European I can tell you that most of us around here can very easily be won over if you're a boss and you tell the truth, especially if it is unpleasant. Most EE people would get a huge amount of loyalty for you if you're that boss and will tolerate corporate bad times and lack of promotions as well. I keep remembering George Carlin's words that Americans have trouble with the truth. Obviously I am not judging but I've heard quite a lot of ther USA citizens say the same. Coming clean is the best thing you can do as a CEO. Plus, as my wife says "if they leave you because you're in a tight spot, why would you need them anyway?" I realize it's not always that clear and cut but IMO the general principle is sound.