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I am not sure if P2P is a step forward. P2P is okay when you have a stable connetion, but when it comes to mobile communication you want to have some sort of al

by JepZ 9y ago

I am not sure if P2P is a step forward. P2P is okay when you have a stable connetion, but when it comes to mobile communication you want to have some sort of always-on service to store/buffer your messages. From the technology perspective I am quite happy with modern XMPP. There are just too few good (up-to-date) clients :-/ For the most part I use 'conversations' and while it is quite a good client for messages, it has no support for calls.

the8472 9y ago
> you want to have some sort of always-on service to store/buffer your messages. An instance running on a NAS or similar device at home to provide that backlog capability should do the job, no? I don't know if ring supports that, but the concept is simple and at least as old as bouncers for IRC.
- agentdrtran 9y ago
  > An instance running on a NAS or similar device at home to provide that backlog capability should do the job, no? Do you really think 99% people care enough to do this?
  - the8472 9y ago
    Well, if we take the people who would install ring in the first place and have some tiny server at home that can actually install software I would say the chances go up significantly. It could use some streamlining, e.g. get it into package managers for whatever distro is running on it, automatic pairing (multicast on the local network), maybe detection of compatible devices. UX is basically a separate set of problems you have to solve on top of making it work technically.
- JepZ 9y ago
  Well, buffering that kind of stuff, is one of the more complex parts of an XMPP server (XEP-0013, XEP-0160, XEP-0280, XEP-0313). AFAIK IRC bouncers tunnel all the traffic and are not mobile aware. So to reduce battery usage, XMPP has some functionality within the protocol (XEP-0198, XEP-0352). So after optimizing your bouncer approach you will probably come up with what XMPP does (more or less, maybe with a few minor exceptions). XMPP also knows how to do P2P connections (that is what 'jingle' is actually about, not just calls), but I think that the problems of P2P are actually the reason why there are still so many problems with XMPP calls. I mean if you want to build P2P that 'just-works' you will need STUN/TURN servers and while XMPP servers like ejabberd bring them with a standard installation, TURN servers require a lot of ressources (bandwith). At the same time the others parts of a XMPP server are very lightweight so that the TURN server causes scaling issues. For anyone interessted in the matter I highly recommend taking a look at the 'conversations' website (https://conversations.im/#optimizations https://conversations.im/#optimizations).

by JepZ 9y ago

the8472 9y ago

> you want to have some sort of always-on service to store/buffer your messages. An instance running on a NAS or similar device at home to provide that backlog capability should do the job, no? I don't know if ring supports that, but the concept is simple and at least as old as bouncers for IRC.

agentdrtran 9y ago
> An instance running on a NAS or similar device at home to provide that backlog capability should do the job, no? Do you really think 99% people care enough to do this?
- the8472 9y ago
  Well, if we take the people who would install ring in the first place and have some tiny server at home that can actually install software I would say the chances go up significantly. It could use some streamlining, e.g. get it into package managers for whatever distro is running on it, automatic pairing (multicast on the local network), maybe detection of compatible devices. UX is basically a separate set of problems you have to solve on top of making it work technically.
JepZ 9y ago
Well, buffering that kind of stuff, is one of the more complex parts of an XMPP server (XEP-0013, XEP-0160, XEP-0280, XEP-0313). AFAIK IRC bouncers tunnel all the traffic and are not mobile aware. So to reduce battery usage, XMPP has some functionality within the protocol (XEP-0198, XEP-0352). So after optimizing your bouncer approach you will probably come up with what XMPP does (more or less, maybe with a few minor exceptions). XMPP also knows how to do P2P connections (that is what 'jingle' is actually about, not just calls), but I think that the problems of P2P are actually the reason why there are still so many problems with XMPP calls. I mean if you want to build P2P that 'just-works' you will need STUN/TURN servers and while XMPP servers like ejabberd bring them with a standard installation, TURN servers require a lot of ressources (bandwith). At the same time the others parts of a XMPP server are very lightweight so that the TURN server causes scaling issues. For anyone interessted in the matter I highly recommend taking a look at the 'conversations' website (https://conversations.im/#optimizations https://conversations.im/#optimizations).