4 ms·

Hopefully these will be restricted to use on farmland instead of being inappropriately paraded in suburban areas. Electric vehicles are not "clean", they're me

Hopefully these will be restricted to use on farmland instead of being inappropriately paraded in suburban areas. Electric vehicles are not "clean", they're merely cleaner.

ClassyJacket 9y ago
Excuse me? What claims are you making exactly regarding electric vehicles that mean they shouldn't be allowed on public roads?
- criddell 9y ago
  Not the OP, but one justification is that they aren't consuming gasoline and taxes on gasoline are primarily how roads are paid for. I wouldn't go as far as the OP, but instead I would hope the government finds some way to tax electric vehicles equitably or change how road funding works.
  - nunobrito 9y ago
    In a few European countries (e.g. Germany, Austria, Switzerland) you pay a yearly tax for each car that you own that is meant to fund road maintenance/development. This is about 350 USD in Germany. At some other countries (e.g. Portugal, Italy, France), they have tolls for the highways so only the cars crossing that road pay for the cost. And a new option is automatic tolls, where you don't even stop. They just take a picture of the car with license plate and send you the accumulated bill to your home (e.g. Portugal). Personally my preferred option is the German approach where you know that this is a fixed price. Paying by usage ends up being abused, in Portugal they leased the highways to privates that now hiked up the prices like crazy since it is basically a monopoly (no other road to reach your destination).
    - rileyphone 9y ago
      In Florida we have a huge toll system with the majority of it under an RFID like 'pass' you stick under your window. Tolls are ran by the state, largely on busy state roads in larger metro areas. I'm a pretty big fan, largely because it contributes to our lack of a state income tax.
      - criddell 9y ago
        My mind immediately went to the privacy implications of that. But then, you are in public on a public road so maybe tracking cars isn't such a big deal.
    - djrogers 9y ago
      In the US, everyone of these options is used in various ways. You have to take into account though that some of this is done by the individual states, some is Federal, and some is local or even public/private partnerships. There is no single countrywide solution that can solve something like highway maintenance on a country the size of the US.
    - jaclaz 9y ago
      >At some other countries (e.g. Portugal, Italy, France), they have tolls for the highways so only the cars crossing that road pay for the cost. JFYI in Italy you pay BOTH a "fixed tax" (which is function of the horsepower of the car engine) AND most highways have tolls. You pay with the fixed tax the "general maintenance and development" of ALL roads (excluded toll highways) and you pay the toll on a per use basis, as highways are largely "private" (technically they are public but object of concession/grant to privates).
      - nunobrito 9y ago
        Happy to see you around here. :-) Thanks for the detail about the road taxes in Italy. I had to stop so often on the road headed towards Milan to pay tolls every couple of kilometres and you still have to pay an yearly cost as resident, great.
        jaclaz 9y ago
        Well it is a strange road you took. Normally on highways in Italy you take a ticket when enterng the highway and pay when you exit, the toll boxes every few kilometres is something that was removed everywhere in the 70's (though I cannot exclude that a specific road somewhere in Italy still has them).
- ZeroGravitas 9y ago
  I think he's complaining about people buying ridiculously large cars for commuter use. And saying that it's still bad for the environment if it's a stupidly large and heavy EV that's being misused in this way.
- frabbit 9y ago
  I am making the claim that while these vehicles may be useful for hauling stuff around farms they should not be abused (see Hummer, Jeep, SUV, pickup trucks, massive mommy waggons). While electric motors allow us to reduce the CO2 emissions somewhat the energy does not magically come from nowhere: there are externalities associated with all methods of power generation. It is a truism that when people think they're getting a bargain they then over-consume and end up consuming more than they would have if the price were higher initially. I would like to see that not happening with electric vehicles. Reduction in energy consumption is easily achieved by not chosing a ridiculously heavy, non-aerodynamic vehicle.
  - frabbit 9y ago
    For a directly relevant example of the irrational behaviors observed around lowering the prices of commodities: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/20/upshot/when-gas-becomes-cheaper-americans-buy-more-expensive-gas.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/20/upshot/when-gas-becomes-c...

Hopefully these will be restricted to use on farmland instead of being inappropriately paraded in suburban areas. Electric vehicles are not "clean", they're merely cleaner.

ClassyJacket 9y ago

Excuse me? What claims are you making exactly regarding electric vehicles that mean they shouldn't be allowed on public roads?

criddell 9y ago
Not the OP, but one justification is that they aren't consuming gasoline and taxes on gasoline are primarily how roads are paid for. I wouldn't go as far as the OP, but instead I would hope the government finds some way to tax electric vehicles equitably or change how road funding works.
- nunobrito 9y ago
  In a few European countries (e.g. Germany, Austria, Switzerland) you pay a yearly tax for each car that you own that is meant to fund road maintenance/development. This is about 350 USD in Germany. At some other countries (e.g. Portugal, Italy, France), they have tolls for the highways so only the cars crossing that road pay for the cost. And a new option is automatic tolls, where you don't even stop. They just take a picture of the car with license plate and send you the accumulated bill to your home (e.g. Portugal). Personally my preferred option is the German approach where you know that this is a fixed price. Paying by usage ends up being abused, in Portugal they leased the highways to privates that now hiked up the prices like crazy since it is basically a monopoly (no other road to reach your destination).
  - rileyphone 9y ago
    In Florida we have a huge toll system with the majority of it under an RFID like 'pass' you stick under your window. Tolls are ran by the state, largely on busy state roads in larger metro areas. I'm a pretty big fan, largely because it contributes to our lack of a state income tax.
    - criddell 9y ago
      My mind immediately went to the privacy implications of that. But then, you are in public on a public road so maybe tracking cars isn't such a big deal.
  - djrogers 9y ago
    In the US, everyone of these options is used in various ways. You have to take into account though that some of this is done by the individual states, some is Federal, and some is local or even public/private partnerships. There is no single countrywide solution that can solve something like highway maintenance on a country the size of the US.
  - jaclaz 9y ago
    >At some other countries (e.g. Portugal, Italy, France), they have tolls for the highways so only the cars crossing that road pay for the cost. JFYI in Italy you pay BOTH a "fixed tax" (which is function of the horsepower of the car engine) AND most highways have tolls. You pay with the fixed tax the "general maintenance and development" of ALL roads (excluded toll highways) and you pay the toll on a per use basis, as highways are largely "private" (technically they are public but object of concession/grant to privates).
    - nunobrito 9y ago
      Happy to see you around here. :-) Thanks for the detail about the road taxes in Italy. I had to stop so often on the road headed towards Milan to pay tolls every couple of kilometres and you still have to pay an yearly cost as resident, great.
      - jaclaz 9y ago
        Well it is a strange road you took. Normally on highways in Italy you take a ticket when enterng the highway and pay when you exit, the toll boxes every few kilometres is something that was removed everywhere in the 70's (though I cannot exclude that a specific road somewhere in Italy still has them).
ZeroGravitas 9y ago
I think he's complaining about people buying ridiculously large cars for commuter use. And saying that it's still bad for the environment if it's a stupidly large and heavy EV that's being misused in this way.
frabbit 9y ago
I am making the claim that while these vehicles may be useful for hauling stuff around farms they should not be abused (see Hummer, Jeep, SUV, pickup trucks, massive mommy waggons). While electric motors allow us to reduce the CO2 emissions somewhat the energy does not magically come from nowhere: there are externalities associated with all methods of power generation. It is a truism that when people think they're getting a bargain they then over-consume and end up consuming more than they would have if the price were higher initially. I would like to see that not happening with electric vehicles. Reduction in energy consumption is easily achieved by not chosing a ridiculously heavy, non-aerodynamic vehicle.
- frabbit 9y ago
  For a directly relevant example of the irrational behaviors observed around lowering the prices of commodities: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/20/upshot/when-gas-becomes-cheaper-americans-buy-more-expensive-gas.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/20/upshot/when-gas-becomes-c...