4 ms·

Application of unrefined AI in the context of deadly machinery is a real and immediate AI-danger. Self-refining, wolrd-dominating AI is at present time just a d

by enord 9y ago

Application of unrefined AI in the context of deadly machinery is a real and immediate AI-danger. Self-refining, wolrd-dominating AI is at present time just a distraction from this.

Anderkent 9y ago
Not really, the stakes are completely different. Robot armies might change warfare and balance of state power. They're not going to threaten humanity as a whole.
- dogma1138 9y ago
  It's not about threatening humanity it's about threathening humans. I agree with the GP I always said that a dumb AI with sufficient agency in the real world is much scarier now me than some super intelligence. The former is much more likely to be realized and it already has to some extent and unlike the latter cannot be reasoned with.
- enord 9y ago
  Pray tell, how should AI threaten humanity as a whole without a robot army (or some other deadly embodiment)?
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    In a hundred million ways. Systems could be hacked, or humans social-engineered to start a nuclear war or manufacture and release a deadly plague, as some most trivial and devastating examples. Also, threatening humanity is boring and irrelevant. What counts is threatening technological civilization. If we collapse to preindustrial times, it's game over for us anyway.
    - greedo 9y ago
      If we have a civilization collapse event, then the terminators are done as well. They will be dependent on our technology. The idea of an AI run world is just too far away.
      - andrei_says_ 9y ago
        I can imagine solar powered ai-run portable snipers covering large territories and murdering a lot of civilians over an extended period of time. Think forgotten land mines.
  - bigleagueposter 9y ago
    The AI could use a human army. If it wanted to eliminate humanity in a not lethal way it could sterilize everyone with a virus or something.
ClassyJacket 9y ago
It can be worrying to think that aowrson could right now mount a gun to a drone and have it point at things it thinks look like people and shoot. Then I remember that with any amount of technology they could just kill me themselves. Getting hit by a car is a much bigger risk, and the application of AI to prevent that is a much larger positive than the negatives AI introduces.
- enord 9y ago
  This remains to be seen. It might be, I don't necessarily disbelieve it, but general handwaving about applying AI to solve a problem is just that.
- dahoramanodoceu 9y ago
  That must mean you are not in a middle eastern country. It's self centered to only have concern for your own well-being and myopic to think that, in a world full of self-centered people, with this tech being mass produced, that you'll continue living in a northern-atlantic utopia, where the probable causes of untimely death remain unchanged.
  - ClassyJacket 9y ago
    You're absolutely right. And it did occur to me, but I suppose I'm talking about things that we expect to change our way of life. I dare say if I was living in a third world country I'd have those problems now. I hope and believe that the forces using AI for good will outweigh the forces using AI for evil.
  - aseipp 9y ago
    As an American I'm going to go out on a limb and say a big part of this is: Americans in particular are absolutely insulated from mass death. Why wouldn't we be? We've never fought major wars on our own soil in over a century. We haven't had major disease outbreaks killing mass people in like 100 years. We cannot comprehend it; the idea that mass amounts of people die (1,000,000 iraqis, 100,000s of people in warzones like Syria) in relatively short time spans is impossible for us to comprehend. This is the same reason why after 9/11, where a few thousand people died, people all over the country were literally having shared hysteria -- to the point of microwaving mail envelopes (Anthrax attacks!) or buying duct tape and plastic wrap to seal windows (Gas attacks!) They told kids in school about this shit and to prepare for it. It was hysteria, it was not isolated. I think most people willingly choose to believe it doesn't happen at all. A few bombings here and tactical strikes there, twice (or ten) times a day, in a war for 15 years. "Not that bad". Meanwhile we sit around and dream up AI scenarios where they're either A) Sci-Fi novel hellmachines who are bent on total domination of reality unless we "Fight the Machines" or B) useful, peaceful Roombas and car services that run us around and do all our chores and can never do any wrong. Look, my car can get my groceries for me! How fantastic is that! (provided your grocery store was not blown up by a Hellfire missile last week, of course) The third possibility, C, that hostile, unrefined AI will be used to continue to enforce colonial and imperial desires around the world, killing huge amounts of people? Not possible. It's not fanciful or fantastic enough to want to believe, so people don't. It's not a Steven King novel or an Elon Musk jerk-off fantasy. It's just boring old poor people dying. You only need to watch any discussion on Hacker News about "The threat of AI" to see how quickly people start talking about self-imposed God-machines, or talking about Ultra Roombas that do all your earthly chores -- while ignoring murder-robots in 3rd world countries, manned by massive armies. One of those is a fantasy dreamt up by 10 year olds, the other is a reality that already happens today with drone warfare.
pjc50 9y ago
You've forgotten the logistics chain. A "hostile" AI without any human support is going to run out of fuel, ammo or spares very very quickly. The real threat from AI is automated colonialism. An empire where the people running it never have to get their hands dirty or face rebellion from troops suffering from post-atrocity PTSD. Send in the killbots followed by corpse disposal Roombas. No (human) witnesses.
- greendestiny_re 9y ago
  >A "hostile" AI without any human support is going to run out of fuel, ammo or spares very very quickly. How about an AI that convinces the humanity to build it an army of androids and then wages war against its creators? Dibs on the idea!

by enord 9y ago

Application of unrefined AI in the context of deadly machinery is a real and immediate AI-danger. Self-refining, wolrd-dominating AI is at present time just a distraction from this.

Anderkent 9y ago

Not really, the stakes are completely different. Robot armies might change warfare and balance of state power. They're not going to threaten humanity as a whole.

dogma1138 9y ago
It's not about threatening humanity it's about threathening humans. I agree with the GP I always said that a dumb AI with sufficient agency in the real world is much scarier now me than some super intelligence. The former is much more likely to be realized and it already has to some extent and unlike the latter cannot be reasoned with.
enord 9y ago
Pray tell, how should AI threaten humanity as a whole without a robot army (or some other deadly embodiment)?
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  In a hundred million ways. Systems could be hacked, or humans social-engineered to start a nuclear war or manufacture and release a deadly plague, as some most trivial and devastating examples. Also, threatening humanity is boring and irrelevant. What counts is threatening technological civilization. If we collapse to preindustrial times, it's game over for us anyway.
  - greedo 9y ago
    If we have a civilization collapse event, then the terminators are done as well. They will be dependent on our technology. The idea of an AI run world is just too far away.
    - andrei_says_ 9y ago
      I can imagine solar powered ai-run portable snipers covering large territories and murdering a lot of civilians over an extended period of time. Think forgotten land mines.
- bigleagueposter 9y ago
  The AI could use a human army. If it wanted to eliminate humanity in a not lethal way it could sterilize everyone with a virus or something.

ClassyJacket 9y ago

It can be worrying to think that aowrson could right now mount a gun to a drone and have it point at things it thinks look like people and shoot. Then I remember that with any amount of technology they could just kill me themselves. Getting hit by a car is a much bigger risk, and the application of AI to prevent that is a much larger positive than the negatives AI introduces.

enord 9y ago
This remains to be seen. It might be, I don't necessarily disbelieve it, but general handwaving about applying AI to solve a problem is just that.
dahoramanodoceu 9y ago
That must mean you are not in a middle eastern country. It's self centered to only have concern for your own well-being and myopic to think that, in a world full of self-centered people, with this tech being mass produced, that you'll continue living in a northern-atlantic utopia, where the probable causes of untimely death remain unchanged.
- ClassyJacket 9y ago
  You're absolutely right. And it did occur to me, but I suppose I'm talking about things that we expect to change our way of life. I dare say if I was living in a third world country I'd have those problems now. I hope and believe that the forces using AI for good will outweigh the forces using AI for evil.
- aseipp 9y ago
  As an American I'm going to go out on a limb and say a big part of this is: Americans in particular are absolutely insulated from mass death. Why wouldn't we be? We've never fought major wars on our own soil in over a century. We haven't had major disease outbreaks killing mass people in like 100 years. We cannot comprehend it; the idea that mass amounts of people die (1,000,000 iraqis, 100,000s of people in warzones like Syria) in relatively short time spans is impossible for us to comprehend. This is the same reason why after 9/11, where a few thousand people died, people all over the country were literally having shared hysteria -- to the point of microwaving mail envelopes (Anthrax attacks!) or buying duct tape and plastic wrap to seal windows (Gas attacks!) They told kids in school about this shit and to prepare for it. It was hysteria, it was not isolated. I think most people willingly choose to believe it doesn't happen at all. A few bombings here and tactical strikes there, twice (or ten) times a day, in a war for 15 years. "Not that bad". Meanwhile we sit around and dream up AI scenarios where they're either A) Sci-Fi novel hellmachines who are bent on total domination of reality unless we "Fight the Machines" or B) useful, peaceful Roombas and car services that run us around and do all our chores and can never do any wrong. Look, my car can get my groceries for me! How fantastic is that! (provided your grocery store was not blown up by a Hellfire missile last week, of course) The third possibility, C, that hostile, unrefined AI will be used to continue to enforce colonial and imperial desires around the world, killing huge amounts of people? Not possible. It's not fanciful or fantastic enough to want to believe, so people don't. It's not a Steven King novel or an Elon Musk jerk-off fantasy. It's just boring old poor people dying. You only need to watch any discussion on Hacker News about "The threat of AI" to see how quickly people start talking about self-imposed God-machines, or talking about Ultra Roombas that do all your earthly chores -- while ignoring murder-robots in 3rd world countries, manned by massive armies. One of those is a fantasy dreamt up by 10 year olds, the other is a reality that already happens today with drone warfare.

pjc50 9y ago

You've forgotten the logistics chain. A "hostile" AI without any human support is going to run out of fuel, ammo or spares very very quickly. The real threat from AI is automated colonialism. An empire where the people running it never have to get their hands dirty or face rebellion from troops suffering from post-atrocity PTSD. Send in the killbots followed by corpse disposal Roombas. No (human) witnesses.

greendestiny_re 9y ago
>A "hostile" AI without any human support is going to run out of fuel, ammo or spares very very quickly. How about an AI that convinces the humanity to build it an army of androids and then wages war against its creators? Dibs on the idea!