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> Four and a half years later I still have no US credit cards and no US credit rating. I haven't really found a need for it, though locals occasionally look sho

> Four and a half years later I still have no US credit cards and no US credit rating. I haven't really found a need for it, though locals occasionally look shocked at the idea. This might turn out to be very penny wise and pound foolish. Sooner or later you might want to buy a property to live in or for investment reasons, and oftentimes you'll only realize you want to buy a place six months or a year before you want to buy. That's not long enough to build a good credit rating to get a decent mortgage - you're very possibly throwing away thousands of dollars of your future money to save yourself... like $20 now. And you don't pay interest on a credit card unless you carry a balance - pay in full each month. I only spent $150 on a credit card once because it had excellent benefits and I got $600 of free airfare from that card. I've paid $0 in fees or carrying a balance besides that in my life, aside from that $20 for a secured loan. Why not build a credit score? - there's no real downside, it doesn't take long to do, and might make a big difference for you later.

Encosia 16y ago
"No real downside" is only true if you have perfect discipline and no bad luck. If that were very common, credit wouldn't be such a phenomenally profitable industry. Betting on credit is like betting against the house in Vegas.
- nostrademons 16y ago
  It's more like decent habits. It's not all that hard to look at the bill, see your "Total balance", and then write that number on the check. I think you can even set up autopay to do it for you. The folks who get in trouble with credit cards are the ones who look at the bill, see "Minimum payment", and write that number on the check. Up until recently, that number was a lot more prominent, so maybe people who had no idea what credit was could be forgiven for this. But they're the ones who get in trouble with debt. People who understand that having a credit card means paying it off in full each month usually end up coming out ahead (via cashback) of where they'd be if they always pay in cash.
  - Encosia 16y ago
    Debt is a useful tool if you use it to buy something with a positive net present value. Revolving debt is so very rarely used for that though. I can't count the number of smart, successful people I've personally seen hit a minor bump in the road and then get behind on their revolving debt. Just a few months of penalties and interest quickly eclipses anything you'll gain through incentives, and makes it progressively harder to get back to even. A checking account autopay would only have added an NSF fee to their problems! For me, it isn't worth the gamble. You have to take enough risks to get ahead in life as it is. Why reduce your odds with unnecessary risks of convenience?
    - nostrademons 16y ago
      If you always pay off your credit card in full on time, then it's effectively the same as a debit card that has fraud protection and cashback built into it. There is a really simple way to avoid getting behind on your payments: don't buy things that you can't cover with the money in your checking account, and pay your bills on time. Heck, if you can't do this with a debit card, you'll get socked with overdraft fees that are on par with what the credit card would get you for.
      - Encosia 16y ago
        The problem isn't the logisitics of paying the balance on time. The problem is how easy it is to get into a situation where you get (even slightly) behind the ball. I don't want to argue with you about it here. This isn't the right place and maybe the debt trap is something you have to witness firsthand to appreciate. I would submit that if it were as easy as a checking autopay, then this wouldn't be happening: http://www.mybudget360.com/american-middle-class-debt-serfdom-only-path-to-middle-class-through-giant-amounts-of-credit-card-housing-debt-loans/ http://www.mybudget360.com/american-middle-class-debt-serfdo...
yason 16y ago
Just curious, no pun intended: Why is it so difficult to get a credit card in the U.S., the land of credit cards itself and, for what I've read, where credit card applications seem to virtually pour in all the time among junk mail? Credit cards in Finland are the third payment option: debit cards and cash are the two most important ways to pay. But you can get a credit card quite easily, and you will definitely get one if you have regular income. I got my first credit card when I was maybe 20 or 21. The reason was that I was going to a vacation abroad and didn't want to carry loads of cash with me. I just walked into my bank and asked for one; as soon as I told them I was permanently employed and had regular income, it was no big deal. It didn't matter I had only started at this job a few months earlier and I had no existing credit record whatsoever (no loans, no credit cards, no other credit). I didn't have to proove it, just tell them my income and some other facts and sign below. If I had been a Swedish citizen living in Finland, I think it wouldn't have been no different. You have income, a bank account and an address: that's probably it. I can easily understand if you had bad credit record but not having one at all being a showstopper really puzzles me. Most people pay their credit card bills anyway so any random newcomer to the business is probably a safe bet.
- lionhearted 16y ago
  > Why is it so difficult to get a credit card in the U.S., the land of credit cards itself and, for what I've read, where credit card applications seem to virtually pour in all the time among junk mail? It's not hard for most people - it's only a problem if you don't have a credit history at all, aren't in college, and can't prove a stable salary. But for those people, it's really the suck - and that's a lot of our demographic. Freelancers, business owners, and self employed people often have a very hard time getting their credit started. > I can easily understand if you had bad credit record but not having one at all being a showstopper really puzzles me. Most people pay their credit card bills anyway so any random newcomer to the business is probably a safe bet. I thought about that too. The credit card companies have very sophisticated metrics and algorithms though, and they seem to think lending to someone with no credit is a very bad idea because they're incredibly hesitant to do it. My best guess is it's a defense against fraud.
  - 16y ago
hugh3 16y ago
I've read on Dave Ramsey's site (he's a finance guru that advises people to never use credit, though for reasons very different to my own -- I'm no follower, it's just the only place I've been able to find which discusses living without a credit rating) that it's generally possible to get a mortgage without a credit rating as long as you can prove you're a good risk in other ways (steady salary, large downpayment). I don't plan on ever having a mortgage in the US, but if I do I'll figure it out at the time.

Encosia 16y ago

"No real downside" is only true if you have perfect discipline and no bad luck. If that were very common, credit wouldn't be such a phenomenally profitable industry. Betting on credit is like betting against the house in Vegas.

nostrademons 16y ago
It's more like decent habits. It's not all that hard to look at the bill, see your "Total balance", and then write that number on the check. I think you can even set up autopay to do it for you. The folks who get in trouble with credit cards are the ones who look at the bill, see "Minimum payment", and write that number on the check. Up until recently, that number was a lot more prominent, so maybe people who had no idea what credit was could be forgiven for this. But they're the ones who get in trouble with debt. People who understand that having a credit card means paying it off in full each month usually end up coming out ahead (via cashback) of where they'd be if they always pay in cash.
- Encosia 16y ago
  Debt is a useful tool if you use it to buy something with a positive net present value. Revolving debt is so very rarely used for that though. I can't count the number of smart, successful people I've personally seen hit a minor bump in the road and then get behind on their revolving debt. Just a few months of penalties and interest quickly eclipses anything you'll gain through incentives, and makes it progressively harder to get back to even. A checking account autopay would only have added an NSF fee to their problems! For me, it isn't worth the gamble. You have to take enough risks to get ahead in life as it is. Why reduce your odds with unnecessary risks of convenience?
  - nostrademons 16y ago
    If you always pay off your credit card in full on time, then it's effectively the same as a debit card that has fraud protection and cashback built into it. There is a really simple way to avoid getting behind on your payments: don't buy things that you can't cover with the money in your checking account, and pay your bills on time. Heck, if you can't do this with a debit card, you'll get socked with overdraft fees that are on par with what the credit card would get you for.
    - Encosia 16y ago
      The problem isn't the logisitics of paying the balance on time. The problem is how easy it is to get into a situation where you get (even slightly) behind the ball. I don't want to argue with you about it here. This isn't the right place and maybe the debt trap is something you have to witness firsthand to appreciate. I would submit that if it were as easy as a checking autopay, then this wouldn't be happening: http://www.mybudget360.com/american-middle-class-debt-serfdom-only-path-to-middle-class-through-giant-amounts-of-credit-card-housing-debt-loans/ http://www.mybudget360.com/american-middle-class-debt-serfdo...

yason 16y ago

Just curious, no pun intended: Why is it so difficult to get a credit card in the U.S., the land of credit cards itself and, for what I've read, where credit card applications seem to virtually pour in all the time among junk mail? Credit cards in Finland are the third payment option: debit cards and cash are the two most important ways to pay. But you can get a credit card quite easily, and you will definitely get one if you have regular income. I got my first credit card when I was maybe 20 or 21. The reason was that I was going to a vacation abroad and didn't want to carry loads of cash with me. I just walked into my bank and asked for one; as soon as I told them I was permanently employed and had regular income, it was no big deal. It didn't matter I had only started at this job a few months earlier and I had no existing credit record whatsoever (no loans, no credit cards, no other credit). I didn't have to proove it, just tell them my income and some other facts and sign below. If I had been a Swedish citizen living in Finland, I think it wouldn't have been no different. You have income, a bank account and an address: that's probably it. I can easily understand if you had bad credit record but not having one at all being a showstopper really puzzles me. Most people pay their credit card bills anyway so any random newcomer to the business is probably a safe bet.

lionhearted 16y ago
> Why is it so difficult to get a credit card in the U.S., the land of credit cards itself and, for what I've read, where credit card applications seem to virtually pour in all the time among junk mail? It's not hard for most people - it's only a problem if you don't have a credit history at all, aren't in college, and can't prove a stable salary. But for those people, it's really the suck - and that's a lot of our demographic. Freelancers, business owners, and self employed people often have a very hard time getting their credit started. > I can easily understand if you had bad credit record but not having one at all being a showstopper really puzzles me. Most people pay their credit card bills anyway so any random newcomer to the business is probably a safe bet. I thought about that too. The credit card companies have very sophisticated metrics and algorithms though, and they seem to think lending to someone with no credit is a very bad idea because they're incredibly hesitant to do it. My best guess is it's a defense against fraud.
- 16y ago

hugh3 16y ago

I've read on Dave Ramsey's site (he's a finance guru that advises people to never use credit, though for reasons very different to my own -- I'm no follower, it's just the only place I've been able to find which discusses living without a credit rating) that it's generally possible to get a mortgage without a credit rating as long as you can prove you're a good risk in other ways (steady salary, large downpayment). I don't plan on ever having a mortgage in the US, but if I do I'll figure it out at the time.