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Most of the comments so far are misunderstanding the cause-effect relationship. Coinbase is signalling that the Bitcoin Cash fork will die and thus isn't worth

by sowbug 9y ago

Most of the comments so far are misunderstanding the cause-effect relationship. Coinbase is signalling that the Bitcoin Cash fork will die and thus isn't worth the engineering effort to support. Because Coinbase is one of the more prominent voices in the industry, this signal diminishes the perceived value of Bitcoin Cash, which increases the chance that the actual value will indeed drop to zero (or never rise above it) if/when it comes into existence. Coinbase's announcement helps ensure the fork will die. Their decision is rational even if you don't view them as an influencer. If the fork dies, they were smart to ignore it. If it thrives, they can add support later and nobody but short-term traders (who wouldn't have kept their funds in Coinbase to begin with) will have missed out on anything.

JoshTriplett 9y ago
I agree with this entirely. Coinbase isn't just "one of the more prominent voices", they're also one of the more respectable voices. They come across as the bridge to more traditional systems (like banks and simplified consumer transactions), filtering out some of the more "radical" elements of the Bitcoin community, and a statement like this from them may well have a material effect on the efficacy of a fork. They might well decide, afterward, to provide a means of cashing out the "alternate" currency after all. But even if they do, and even if they plan to at this point, there's PR value in them not saying that.
- sowbug 9y ago
  There is also a Machiavellian path where an exchange executes a devastatingly well-timed series of sales of its customers' holdings of the alternate version of the currency, thereby tanking the value and ensuring that its preferred outcome comes to pass. What it does with the minuscule revenue from that is probably irrelevant, but it'd make sense to credit to its customers' accounts as BTC. As you say, Coinbase is a respectable firm, and it seems unlikely it would choose this tactic. But it would be consistent with a strategy to ensure the fork fails to thrive.
  - runeks 9y ago
    Simple solution: Coinbase adds "convert BCC to BTC" button, which does exactly what you say, but charges a fee for this service. I can't see how the BCC price can go anywhere but down if all Coinbase customers suddenly gain this ability ("Do you want extra BTC. Yes/no?").
    - JoshTriplett 9y ago
      > Simple solution: Coinbase adds "convert BCC to BTC" button, which does exactly what you say, but charges a fee for this service. That's exactly what I want. (That or a "convert BCC to cash" button, they're equivalent.) They already charge transactions fees. Just write a careful announcement saying something like "due to the nature of the fork, anyone with 1 BTC at time X is entitled to 1 BCC as well, and we're providing a service to cash in that BCC for you".
    - mirimir 9y ago
      Several exchanges are auto-converting their users' BCC to BTC, I've read.[0] 0) https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@kingscrown/if-you-were-not-aware-in-4-days-you-can-have-14-more-of-btc-for-free https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@kingscrown/if-you-were-not-awar...
    - Double_a_92 9y ago
      You can't just "convert" them. You still have to sell them to someone, can't force that. Even if you could that would pull the price down extremely. Easiest thing is to just give the user access to the new chain and it's "parallel"-coins. Then he can decide when and how to sell them.
      - cma 9y ago
        > Even if you could that would pull the price down extremely. That was the point.
- 27182818284 9y ago
  >I agree with this entirely. Coinbase isn't just "one of the more prominent voices", they're also one of the more respectable voices. Yeah, wasn't their original pitch to be the "Gmail of the Bitcoin world" or something like that. The warm blues, friendly emails, YC backing, etc all point in that direction.
- fragmede 9y ago
  > one of the more respectable voices This cannot be underscored enough if BitC* is to be used for anything more than modern day drug dealing. The paper trail is important for things like paying taxes, and obeying sanctions[0] that businesses follow. [0] https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/SDN-List/Pages/default.aspx https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/SDN-List/...
runeks 9y ago
For what it's worth, Bitstamp announced the same position as Coinbase ("we consider BCC an altcoin"): https://www.bitstamp.net/article/bitcoin-hard-fork-our-position/ https://www.bitstamp.net/article/bitcoin-hard-fork-our-posit...
- SyneRyder 9y ago
  And CoinJar have also made a similar statement ("CoinJar is electing to not support Bitcoin Cash come 1st August, 2017"): http://mailchi.mp/coinjar/important-update-potential-bitcoin-network-disruption-520437 http://mailchi.mp/coinjar/important-update-potential-bitcoin...
someonewhocar3s 9y ago
Voting brigades aside, Coinbase is the corporate greed most Bitcoiners are running from. Nobody that respects Bitcoin could respect Coinbase. Sure their voice has weight - they own a lot of the coin. They'll likely use their BCC to crash the show, add their fiat. This all helps their business because the Lightning Network can benefit hugely from their centralised and trusted position. IOW: SegWit and small blocks gives them business. I'll be happy to see Coinbase spend huge money on ruining BCC, while Bitcoiners reap the profits from trading against them, only to have Coinbase end up poor and injust. Also: stealing from your customers is not a classy move. But then, Coinbase was never classy, was it?

by sowbug 9y ago

JoshTriplett 9y ago

I agree with this entirely. Coinbase isn't just "one of the more prominent voices", they're also one of the more respectable voices. They come across as the bridge to more traditional systems (like banks and simplified consumer transactions), filtering out some of the more "radical" elements of the Bitcoin community, and a statement like this from them may well have a material effect on the efficacy of a fork. They might well decide, afterward, to provide a means of cashing out the "alternate" currency after all. But even if they do, and even if they plan to at this point, there's PR value in them not saying that.

sowbug 9y ago
There is also a Machiavellian path where an exchange executes a devastatingly well-timed series of sales of its customers' holdings of the alternate version of the currency, thereby tanking the value and ensuring that its preferred outcome comes to pass. What it does with the minuscule revenue from that is probably irrelevant, but it'd make sense to credit to its customers' accounts as BTC. As you say, Coinbase is a respectable firm, and it seems unlikely it would choose this tactic. But it would be consistent with a strategy to ensure the fork fails to thrive.
- runeks 9y ago
  Simple solution: Coinbase adds "convert BCC to BTC" button, which does exactly what you say, but charges a fee for this service. I can't see how the BCC price can go anywhere but down if all Coinbase customers suddenly gain this ability ("Do you want extra BTC. Yes/no?").
  - JoshTriplett 9y ago
    > Simple solution: Coinbase adds "convert BCC to BTC" button, which does exactly what you say, but charges a fee for this service. That's exactly what I want. (That or a "convert BCC to cash" button, they're equivalent.) They already charge transactions fees. Just write a careful announcement saying something like "due to the nature of the fork, anyone with 1 BTC at time X is entitled to 1 BCC as well, and we're providing a service to cash in that BCC for you".
  - mirimir 9y ago
    Several exchanges are auto-converting their users' BCC to BTC, I've read.[0] 0) https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@kingscrown/if-you-were-not-aware-in-4-days-you-can-have-14-more-of-btc-for-free https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@kingscrown/if-you-were-not-awar...
  - Double_a_92 9y ago
    You can't just "convert" them. You still have to sell them to someone, can't force that. Even if you could that would pull the price down extremely. Easiest thing is to just give the user access to the new chain and it's "parallel"-coins. Then he can decide when and how to sell them.
    - cma 9y ago
      > Even if you could that would pull the price down extremely. That was the point.
27182818284 9y ago
>I agree with this entirely. Coinbase isn't just "one of the more prominent voices", they're also one of the more respectable voices. Yeah, wasn't their original pitch to be the "Gmail of the Bitcoin world" or something like that. The warm blues, friendly emails, YC backing, etc all point in that direction.
fragmede 9y ago
> one of the more respectable voices This cannot be underscored enough if BitC* is to be used for anything more than modern day drug dealing. The paper trail is important for things like paying taxes, and obeying sanctions[0] that businesses follow. [0] https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/SDN-List/Pages/default.aspx https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/SDN-List/...

runeks 9y ago

For what it's worth, Bitstamp announced the same position as Coinbase ("we consider BCC an altcoin"): https://www.bitstamp.net/article/bitcoin-hard-fork-our-position/ https://www.bitstamp.net/article/bitcoin-hard-fork-our-posit...

SyneRyder 9y ago
And CoinJar have also made a similar statement ("CoinJar is electing to not support Bitcoin Cash come 1st August, 2017"): http://mailchi.mp/coinjar/important-update-potential-bitcoin-network-disruption-520437 http://mailchi.mp/coinjar/important-update-potential-bitcoin...

someonewhocar3s 9y ago

Voting brigades aside, Coinbase is the corporate greed most Bitcoiners are running from. Nobody that respects Bitcoin could respect Coinbase. Sure their voice has weight - they own a lot of the coin. They'll likely use their BCC to crash the show, add their fiat. This all helps their business because the Lightning Network can benefit hugely from their centralised and trusted position. IOW: SegWit and small blocks gives them business. I'll be happy to see Coinbase spend huge money on ruining BCC, while Bitcoiners reap the profits from trading against them, only to have Coinbase end up poor and injust. Also: stealing from your customers is not a classy move. But then, Coinbase was never classy, was it?