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I'm a little surprised they won't at least let you withdraw the Bitcoin Cash. Otherwise it seems like they're asking for a "run on the bank" with a bunch of peo

I'm a little surprised they won't at least let you withdraw the Bitcoin Cash. Otherwise it seems like they're asking for a "run on the bank" with a bunch of people pulling out Bitcoin. If BCC is even 10% as valuable as the main chain(Ethereum Classic is still at ~$15 vs. $200 for Ethereum main, it looks like), then why wouldn't people take the free money? A "run on the bank" would be annoying for them because it would mean they have to pull a bunch of money out of cold storage. But I suppose allowing BCC withdrawals would have the same problem, and might add even more risk since there'd be temporary code involved. I wonder if they plan to sell customers' unclaimed BCC for themselves if it later retains any significant value. They are at least consistent: They did the same thing with Stellar earlier. Which makes sense, since there seem to be a lot of fork-like ways to get alternative cryptocurrencies if you hold Bitcoin, and it's probably less hassle to not deal with each unique situation.

JCzynski 9y ago
Agreed, withdraw-only access is the obvious Right Thing. Could be hard to implement, I guess.
- anonova 9y ago
  They did allow ETC withdrawals after the fact: https://support.coinbase.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2524725-ethereum-classic-faq https://support.coinbase.com/customer/en/portal/articles/252.... I'm not sure this is a matter of difficulty to implement.
  - zapt02 9y ago
    If it was, why don't they just say that BCC withdrawals will be available in the future? - If BCC really goes to zero, nobody will care and it will fizz out. - If BCC has value, users can benefit from that value like the rest of the ecosystem. Frankly, I don't see how what they're proposing is even legal.
    - bpicolo 9y ago
      Play barely-regulated games, win barely-regulated prizes? That said, Coinbase has played the regulation game better than anybody else (they're the only entity allowed to sell cryptocurrency in New York last I checked) so credit where credit is due.
      - zapt02 9y ago
        High stakes based on how aggressively current legislation is being drafted. Unless of course Coinbase plans to run away with everyones money long before the class-action suit is filed.
    - zwily 9y ago
      By saying they won't support BCC, they are trying to help make BCC fail. They are very influential. If BCC ends up surviving, I have no doubt they will start withdrawals.
      - QML 9y ago
        I don't think the majority of people who own Bitcoin use Coinbase, maybe those who have identification but there's other exchanges like Gemini and Kraken. And this isn't included outside the U.S. or unregulated exchanges either.
    - noio 9y ago
      > why don't they just say... Because they also want to make a statement to influence the viability of the forked coin.
saurik 9y ago
What percentage of their customers do you believe will hear about this and go to the trouble of actually doing it in the next five days (two of which being a weekend)? When a fork happens, a lot of people who have BTC stored at Coinbase who don't notice or don't bother are then going to be financially isolated from the fork, which removes a ton of people who might otherwise be financially incentived to participate. This thereby could also be acting as a way to hobble a fork (which maybe they have determined the existence of to be bad for them in some way).
- gwern 9y ago
  What percentage will hear? ~100%, inasmuch as they emailed out OP to customers and you need a working email account to do things like device confirmations. The real question is how many understand the discussion of "you will not have access to BCC" to imply that the customers might wind up taking a haircut to the extent of however much BCC becomes worth, and that they probably want to withdraw? (I withdrew mine last week.)
- matt-attack 9y ago
  Anecdotally, I did. I'm a complete bitcoin noob, but owned 5 coins in CB since it was super easy to do. Read the Ask HN from last week when the first email came out from Coinbase. Downloaded Bitcoin-core for OS X, went to Receive and got a QR code, pointed the Coinbase App at my screen and sent the funds (tested it first with a few dollars worth). Then did the big bucks. Note: the most painful part was downloading the entire block chain. Took many many hours. Copied the wallet.dat to a few other hosts and I'm done. Hopefully this will be helpful to anyone else on the fence.
zapt02 9y ago
I don't understand how Coinbase can justify this. Of course Bitcoin cash will have value, and of course they are trying to pocket all that value themselves. If I had any money in Coinbase, I would withdraw it immediately, because a company that thinks they could pull something like this off on their customers are seriously deluded.
- slice_of_life 9y ago
  I agree 100%. It seems absolutely bonkers to me that one would leave their money on coinbase if this is the case. How is this even a debate? They will not hesitate to keep the BCC value themselves and even if they somehow magically find it in their hearts not to assume the value of BCC, why let their customers' assets go to waste? IMO, they're neither good nor credible custodians of their customers' assets.
evilDagmar 9y ago
I'm sure a lot of people will take "the free money" but it would also mean Coinbase has to write a lot of code to handle those transactions separately, and do so in a very short span of time, oh and that code would need to be safe to put millions of dollars through. Sounds like time to call the local Nope dealer and tell him he's got some stuff competition.
petertodd 9y ago
> Otherwise it seems like they're asking for a "run on the bank" with a bunch of people pulling out Bitcoin. To be clear, Coinbase should have adequate Bitcoins on hand to cover 100% of customer balances. Even if every single customer withdraws every single Bitcoin, the only effect on Coinbase should be a few engineers, accountants, and customer service people getting overtime ensuring the process goes smoothly (e.g. by manually taking coins out of cold storage, answering phones, double-checking balances, etc.). This is a very different thing than the traditional "run on the bank" scenario where the bank potentially ends up bankrupt because they don't actually have the funds to cover every deposit.

JCzynski 9y ago

Agreed, withdraw-only access is the obvious Right Thing. Could be hard to implement, I guess.

anonova 9y ago
They did allow ETC withdrawals after the fact: https://support.coinbase.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2524725-ethereum-classic-faq https://support.coinbase.com/customer/en/portal/articles/252.... I'm not sure this is a matter of difficulty to implement.
- zapt02 9y ago
  If it was, why don't they just say that BCC withdrawals will be available in the future? - If BCC really goes to zero, nobody will care and it will fizz out. - If BCC has value, users can benefit from that value like the rest of the ecosystem. Frankly, I don't see how what they're proposing is even legal.
  - bpicolo 9y ago
    Play barely-regulated games, win barely-regulated prizes? That said, Coinbase has played the regulation game better than anybody else (they're the only entity allowed to sell cryptocurrency in New York last I checked) so credit where credit is due.
    - zapt02 9y ago
      High stakes based on how aggressively current legislation is being drafted. Unless of course Coinbase plans to run away with everyones money long before the class-action suit is filed.
  - zwily 9y ago
    By saying they won't support BCC, they are trying to help make BCC fail. They are very influential. If BCC ends up surviving, I have no doubt they will start withdrawals.
    - QML 9y ago
      I don't think the majority of people who own Bitcoin use Coinbase, maybe those who have identification but there's other exchanges like Gemini and Kraken. And this isn't included outside the U.S. or unregulated exchanges either.
  - noio 9y ago
    > why don't they just say... Because they also want to make a statement to influence the viability of the forked coin.

saurik 9y ago

What percentage of their customers do you believe will hear about this and go to the trouble of actually doing it in the next five days (two of which being a weekend)? When a fork happens, a lot of people who have BTC stored at Coinbase who don't notice or don't bother are then going to be financially isolated from the fork, which removes a ton of people who might otherwise be financially incentived to participate. This thereby could also be acting as a way to hobble a fork (which maybe they have determined the existence of to be bad for them in some way).

gwern 9y ago
What percentage will hear? ~100%, inasmuch as they emailed out OP to customers and you need a working email account to do things like device confirmations. The real question is how many understand the discussion of "you will not have access to BCC" to imply that the customers might wind up taking a haircut to the extent of however much BCC becomes worth, and that they probably want to withdraw? (I withdrew mine last week.)
matt-attack 9y ago
Anecdotally, I did. I'm a complete bitcoin noob, but owned 5 coins in CB since it was super easy to do. Read the Ask HN from last week when the first email came out from Coinbase. Downloaded Bitcoin-core for OS X, went to Receive and got a QR code, pointed the Coinbase App at my screen and sent the funds (tested it first with a few dollars worth). Then did the big bucks. Note: the most painful part was downloading the entire block chain. Took many many hours. Copied the wallet.dat to a few other hosts and I'm done. Hopefully this will be helpful to anyone else on the fence.

zapt02 9y ago

I don't understand how Coinbase can justify this. Of course Bitcoin cash will have value, and of course they are trying to pocket all that value themselves. If I had any money in Coinbase, I would withdraw it immediately, because a company that thinks they could pull something like this off on their customers are seriously deluded.

slice_of_life 9y ago
I agree 100%. It seems absolutely bonkers to me that one would leave their money on coinbase if this is the case. How is this even a debate? They will not hesitate to keep the BCC value themselves and even if they somehow magically find it in their hearts not to assume the value of BCC, why let their customers' assets go to waste? IMO, they're neither good nor credible custodians of their customers' assets.

evilDagmar 9y ago

I'm sure a lot of people will take "the free money" but it would also mean Coinbase has to write a lot of code to handle those transactions separately, and do so in a very short span of time, oh and that code would need to be safe to put millions of dollars through. Sounds like time to call the local Nope dealer and tell him he's got some stuff competition.

petertodd 9y ago

> Otherwise it seems like they're asking for a "run on the bank" with a bunch of people pulling out Bitcoin. To be clear, Coinbase should have adequate Bitcoins on hand to cover 100% of customer balances. Even if every single customer withdraws every single Bitcoin, the only effect on Coinbase should be a few engineers, accountants, and customer service people getting overtime ensuring the process goes smoothly (e.g. by manually taking coins out of cold storage, answering phones, double-checking balances, etc.). This is a very different thing than the traditional "run on the bank" scenario where the bank potentially ends up bankrupt because they don't actually have the funds to cover every deposit.