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The BE-4 is an impressive engine [1], at 550,000 lbs of thrust it's about 1/3 of a Saturn F1[2], and it's stage combustion lox/methane. Blue Origin is building

The BE-4 is an impressive engine [1], at 550,000 lbs of thrust it's about 1/3 of a Saturn F1[2], and it's stage combustion lox/methane. Blue Origin is building some impressive hardware. What's interesting to me is the dichotomy between Musk and Bezos vision for humanity in the Solar System. Musk is Mars focused almost exclusively. Bezos has talked about space habitats (O'neil cylinders for example [3]) as how he thinks things will play out. Certainly room for both. Bezos isn't playing, he's going all in, selling $1 billion of shares a year to fund Blue Origin [4]. One way to look at this situation is Musk and Bezos competing to be king of transportation infrastructure for the Solar System. High stakes indeed. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BE-4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BE-4 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocketdyne_F-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocketdyne_F-1 [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Neill_cylinder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Neill_cylinder [4] http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/06/bezos-is-selling-amazon-stock-to-fund-rocket-venture.html http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/06/bezos-is-selling-amazon-stock...

phkahler 9y ago
>> Bezos isn't playing, he's going all in, selling $1 billion of shares a year to fund Blue Origin [4]. One way to look at this situation is Musk and Bezos competing to be king of transportation infrastructure for the Solar System. High stakes indeed. I used to wonder what could happen if the guys with billions decided to do something interesting with all their money. This is some of the most interesting stuff I've ever seen. Some guys buy sports teams, some buy hookers, some just fucking blow me away with their ambition.
- Turing_Machine 9y ago
  Yep. At one time a mark of being super-rich was owning a megayacht and a palatial estate. Nowadays you haven't really arrived until you can afford to fund your own space program. :-)
  - icelancer 9y ago
    As stated in the show Billions, sports franchises are how people are knighted in today's society. Space travel may be another level above that.
    - walshemj 9y ago
      Really form my UK perspective a businessman buying a football club is a sign of either insanity or criminality some times both.
      - icelancer 9y ago
        Oh, that's very much how it is in America. Our knights are also mostly white-collar criminals and/or insane.
  - gozur88 9y ago
    Well, you need some way to separate yourself from those that are merely rich.
- mrep 9y ago
  Repeat: Well, at a net worth of approximately 90 billion and assuming a 5% return rate, he can spend 4.5 billion dollars every year forever on the blue origin and never lose a pennY. This is play money for him when you are that rich.
- oblio 9y ago
  All in? Charles Foster Kane: You're right, I did lose a million dollars last year. I expect to lose a million dollars this year. I expect to lose a million dollars next year. You know, Mr. Thatcher, at the rate of a million dollars a year, I'll have to close this place in... 60 years.
  - beaconstudios 9y ago
    Musk did go all in though, at one point he was dead broke from pouring all his money into spacex.
    - Klathmon 9y ago
      It's one of my favorite stories about SpaceX Early on in their life as a company, they had 3 back-to-back failures. They were a laughing stock of the industry for the most part. The idea that this little (by comparison to NASA or some of the established private players) company could take on rockets and make them reusable was a joke. But Elon (and IIRC Peter Thiel) poured more money into it in spite of this, and they were finally able to get moving and are now (at least in my mind) at the forefront of the industry in many areas.
valuearb 9y ago
The BE-4 is an impressive idea for an engine. It's never had a successful test fire, and is behind the Raptor in development.
- nickik 9y ago
  It's not behind the Raptor in development. The Raptor has test fired but only a sub-scale. BE-4 design is finished and should not change anymore. We don't know if it has been test fired or not, they are in the middle of the testing campaign and Blue Origin does not share that information. The first BE-4 will be done long before Raptor, and it will fly before.
  - valuearb 9y ago
    The BE-4 blew up on the test stand a couple months ago when they tried to test it. It's not complete because they are likely redesigning to fix that. We know it hasn't had a successful test or they and especially ULA would be trumpeting it. The subscale Raptor was successfully tested nearly a year ago and is twice the power of anything BO has ever made.
    - nickik 9y ago
      Sorry that is wrong, the BE-4 did not blow up. A test of a component failed, problems like that are normal and they are still within the planed time line. The idea that if the had success they would 'trumpet it' is simply wrong, this has not been true in the past for Blue Origin and nothing has changed. Raptor might be further along now but we don't have the information.
ForHackernews 9y ago
He's not Mars-focused anymore. Recently admitted that was a pipe dream: https://www.wired.com/story/spacexs-mars-plans-hit-a-pothole-up-next-the-moon/ https://www.wired.com/story/spacexs-mars-plans-hit-a-pothole... (Conveniently enough, right after NASA came out and admitted they didn't have funding for a real Mars mission)
- njarboe 9y ago
  Of course Musk is still Mars focused. That is the goal of what he and the people working at SpaceX are doing. If you watch the source video[1] for the Wired piece (journalists aren't selected for truth telling), you can see Musk controlling the impulse to call NASA a do-nothing, scaredy pants organization. He explicitly states that people going to Mars will not be "safety first" people (implying NASA people are). Musk would love to use rockets to land the Dragons back on Earth but getting them to pass NASA safety tests is too difficult to be worth it with his current understanding of propulsive landing. He and his team have recently determined that there is not as much overlap in the design of a rocket landing Dragon that would land on Earth and the ones they would use for Mars as they originally thought. As Earth Dragon development does not support much of the Mars efforts, they will just go with parachuted Dragon for NASA approved Earth landing and design Red Dragon with more customization for Mars only landing (and liftoff?). [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqvBhhTtUm4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqvBhhTtUm4

phkahler 9y ago

>> Bezos isn't playing, he's going all in, selling $1 billion of shares a year to fund Blue Origin [4]. One way to look at this situation is Musk and Bezos competing to be king of transportation infrastructure for the Solar System. High stakes indeed. I used to wonder what could happen if the guys with billions decided to do something interesting with all their money. This is some of the most interesting stuff I've ever seen. Some guys buy sports teams, some buy hookers, some just fucking blow me away with their ambition.

Turing_Machine 9y ago
Yep. At one time a mark of being super-rich was owning a megayacht and a palatial estate. Nowadays you haven't really arrived until you can afford to fund your own space program. :-)
- icelancer 9y ago
  As stated in the show Billions, sports franchises are how people are knighted in today's society. Space travel may be another level above that.
  - walshemj 9y ago
    Really form my UK perspective a businessman buying a football club is a sign of either insanity or criminality some times both.
    - icelancer 9y ago
      Oh, that's very much how it is in America. Our knights are also mostly white-collar criminals and/or insane.
- gozur88 9y ago
  Well, you need some way to separate yourself from those that are merely rich.
mrep 9y ago
Repeat: Well, at a net worth of approximately 90 billion and assuming a 5% return rate, he can spend 4.5 billion dollars every year forever on the blue origin and never lose a pennY. This is play money for him when you are that rich.
oblio 9y ago
All in? Charles Foster Kane: You're right, I did lose a million dollars last year. I expect to lose a million dollars this year. I expect to lose a million dollars next year. You know, Mr. Thatcher, at the rate of a million dollars a year, I'll have to close this place in... 60 years.
- beaconstudios 9y ago
  Musk did go all in though, at one point he was dead broke from pouring all his money into spacex.
  - Klathmon 9y ago
    It's one of my favorite stories about SpaceX Early on in their life as a company, they had 3 back-to-back failures. They were a laughing stock of the industry for the most part. The idea that this little (by comparison to NASA or some of the established private players) company could take on rockets and make them reusable was a joke. But Elon (and IIRC Peter Thiel) poured more money into it in spite of this, and they were finally able to get moving and are now (at least in my mind) at the forefront of the industry in many areas.

valuearb 9y ago

The BE-4 is an impressive idea for an engine. It's never had a successful test fire, and is behind the Raptor in development.

nickik 9y ago
It's not behind the Raptor in development. The Raptor has test fired but only a sub-scale. BE-4 design is finished and should not change anymore. We don't know if it has been test fired or not, they are in the middle of the testing campaign and Blue Origin does not share that information. The first BE-4 will be done long before Raptor, and it will fly before.
- valuearb 9y ago
  The BE-4 blew up on the test stand a couple months ago when they tried to test it. It's not complete because they are likely redesigning to fix that. We know it hasn't had a successful test or they and especially ULA would be trumpeting it. The subscale Raptor was successfully tested nearly a year ago and is twice the power of anything BO has ever made.
  - nickik 9y ago
    Sorry that is wrong, the BE-4 did not blow up. A test of a component failed, problems like that are normal and they are still within the planed time line. The idea that if the had success they would 'trumpet it' is simply wrong, this has not been true in the past for Blue Origin and nothing has changed. Raptor might be further along now but we don't have the information.

ForHackernews 9y ago

He's not Mars-focused anymore. Recently admitted that was a pipe dream: https://www.wired.com/story/spacexs-mars-plans-hit-a-pothole-up-next-the-moon/ https://www.wired.com/story/spacexs-mars-plans-hit-a-pothole... (Conveniently enough, right after NASA came out and admitted they didn't have funding for a real Mars mission)

njarboe 9y ago
Of course Musk is still Mars focused. That is the goal of what he and the people working at SpaceX are doing. If you watch the source video[1] for the Wired piece (journalists aren't selected for truth telling), you can see Musk controlling the impulse to call NASA a do-nothing, scaredy pants organization. He explicitly states that people going to Mars will not be "safety first" people (implying NASA people are). Musk would love to use rockets to land the Dragons back on Earth but getting them to pass NASA safety tests is too difficult to be worth it with his current understanding of propulsive landing. He and his team have recently determined that there is not as much overlap in the design of a rocket landing Dragon that would land on Earth and the ones they would use for Mars as they originally thought. As Earth Dragon development does not support much of the Mars efforts, they will just go with parachuted Dragon for NASA approved Earth landing and design Red Dragon with more customization for Mars only landing (and liftoff?). [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqvBhhTtUm4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqvBhhTtUm4