5 ms·

Lattice Shapes of Rings of Integers of Number Fields: An Artist's Rendering [pdf]

11 points by jordigh 9y ago

programd 9y ago
Oh how I wish every math paper was written like this! Very few math papers are a fun read - this is one of them.
SidiousL 9y ago
This is written by the racist woman who, in an AMS blog, was calling[http://blogs.ams.org/inclusionexclusion/2017/05/11/get-out-the-way/ http://blogs.ams.org/inclusionexclusion/2017/05/11/get-out-t...] for all the white men to resign from math departments because somehow they are part of the problem.
- diegoperini 9y ago
  That is a terrible summary of what is written in that page. Edit: See the commentary below the post. "This is a blog post, an opinion piece, and a provocation to think. As Piper says, it is about “shifting perspective”. It is not being written by a university president, nor is it something we are acting upon. We are not actually firing anyone. A common argumentation device is to take something to the extreme to really help us do the shifting (and often with things regarding race and gender, this is an effective device, albeit upsetting for some)."
  - SidiousL 9y ago
    In what way is my summary terrible? I stand by it and I have the facts to back it up. When somebody says: > If you are a white cis man (meaning you identify as male and you were assigned male at birth) you almost certainly should resign from your position of power. That’s right, please quit. No reasonable person can make such a blatantly unfair demand and then accuse me of uncharitable interpretation of their opinion. In fact, I find it horrifying that someboy so unhinged as this woman was allowed to lecture in a university.
    - diegoperini 9y ago
      It is terrible because it ignores the fact that the author's intention is to provoke thinking, in a cynical way. It is one thing to say that a post contains racist/sexist etc pieces, it is another thing to say that the author is racist. In that case, Bo Burnham is someone who deserves a death sentence. Even for a mathematician or scientist, a person has the right to talk with the extremes outside of classroom every once in a while.
      - SidiousL 9y ago
        I don't think I was cynical at all. I just took the most straightforward literal interpretation of what she wrote. And I think she really meant it since otherwise she would have apologized for any misunderstanding by now. About he idea that the author's intention was to provoke thinking. What kind of thinking was it suppose to provoke? Push people to self-hate for who they are? Make the ones in the other camp sharpen their pitchforks and attack math departments until they comply with her lunacy? On the idea that if you write something racist then you are not a racist. Yes you are. What she wrote was not comedy and it wasn't funny at all to me so she does not get the comedy pass.
        jordigh 9y ago
        > Push people to self-hate for who they are? Did you read the post? She says that's pointless and useless. She also acknowledges that her blog post isn't going to change anything. Nobody is going to quit because they read this. She has no power to fire anyone. White men, on the other hand, have the power to not hire her, to fire her, and so forth. So what's the damage? Why are you mounting an all-out attack against her because you were reminded of her thesis? Why are you hurting so much?
        SidiousL 9y ago
        Did you read the post? Yes. Remember, I linked to it. And, as painful as it was, I did read the whole thing. White men, on the other hand, have the power to not hire her, to fire her, and so forth. So the implication is that a majority of these white men in position of power are bigoted? I think an alternative explanation for her not getting hired is that maybe she didn't meet their standards. I understand that this is maybe a difficult conclusion to accept if you're a female supremacist with a fragile ego. Why are you mounting an all-out attack against her because you were reminded of her thesis? I think the attack is well-deserved for reasons that should be obvious by now.
  - SidiousL 9y ago
    And by the way, this commentary that you quoted is by Adriana Salerno, not by the original author. This commentary appeared after the negative reaction to the blog post; the initial version of the blog post did not contain it. I think by labeling it "opinion piece" the American Mathematical Society was distancing themselves from the content (as well they should). I notice now that this commentary was also edited, but some of the more egregious statements remain quoted in the comments of the blog. In other words, even the commentary used to be worse.
- jordigh 9y ago
  Why is that racist? If they are not part of the problem, then who is? Also, what does this have to do at all with her thesis?
  - SidiousL 9y ago
    It is racist and misandrist because it singles out _all_ white men. I don't know how I can make this any clearer. Would it be any easier to understand if you substituted "white men" with "jews"? And by the way, in what way are _all_ of them part of the problem? And how does she know that? Does she know all of them? How should I call somebody who unapologetically makes disparaging and hateful statements about whole groups of a people? The link with her thesis is that she wrote it. And by the way, let me just say that her thesis is special... and leave it at that.
    - jordigh 9y ago
      > Would it be any easier to understand if you substituted "white men" with "jews"? No, because Jews aren't an overwhelming majority of people taking up space in universities. Think of something else. There's lots of traffic on the road. Can we blame any individual driver for the traffic? No. Each is a happy little individual doing the best they can, and how could they have known that every other individual would have wanted to drive that day. But all of those individuals, following their own little selfish goals are what constitute traffic. In order to reduce traffic, they should get off the road and not drive. Walk, take a bike, whatever. Let's go back away from this somewhat tortured analogy. If white men are not responsible for filling up the overwhelming majority of mathematician positions with white men, then who is? Going back to her thesis, it's really odd to me how emotional you get over this and can't separate the thesis from the blog post.
      - SidiousL 9y ago
        No, because Jews aren't an overwhelming majority of people taking up space in universities. I think you'll find that they are overrepresented. How did that come about? And to turn your question back at you: if jews are not responsible for their over-representation in academia, then who is? How about this? Should all the black NBA players (which is most of them) should resign too and make room for white people? Clearly they are responsible for keeping all the white men out. I could go on forever. Going back to her thesis, it's really odd to me how emotional you get over this and can't separate the thesis from the blog post. Sorry, I can not separate work from the author.
- dang 9y ago
  We've banned this account for ideological flamewar. That is emphatically not what this site, and when accounts use HN primarily for political or ideological battle, we ban them.
  - SidiousL 9y ago
    I think this is really unfair. I was downvoted a lot and I'm not sure what for. Every single statement I made in the initial post in this tread was 100% correct and I stand by it. I didn't downvote anybody, I didn't create this account to enter flamewars, and I would have stopped posting on this subject soon enough (it's become clear that I'm talking to the walls).
gone35 9y ago
"Respected research math is dominated by men of a certain attitude. Even allowing for individual variation, there is still a tendency towards an oppressive atmosphere, which is carefully maintained and even championed by those who find it conducive to success." This is def consistent my personal experience... Not so much sexism (nowadays at least) but a strange mix of ageism, cult of innate 'genius', and gymnastics/ballet-like, endurance/bravado-focused ultracompetitiveness [1,2,3]. I increasingly blame Hardy's bestseller --and his abiding influence on mathematics culture worldwide-- for it. (Also I can't believe such a diss was accepted in the first place... Sign of changing times.) [1] https://mathbabe.org/2014/08/15/i-love-math-and-i-hate-the-fields-medal/ https://mathbabe.org/2014/08/15/i-love-math-and-i-hate-the-f... [2] http://listeningtogolem.blogspot.com/2016/08/the-invisible-pachyderm-ageism-in.html http://listeningtogolem.blogspot.com/2016/08/the-invisible-p... [3] https://mathbabe.org/2015/01/16/representation-of-women-and-the-genius-myth/ https://mathbabe.org/2015/01/16/representation-of-women-and-...

11 points by jordigh 9y ago

Oh how I wish every math paper was written like this! Very few math papers are a fun read - this is one of them.

This is written by the racist woman who, in an AMS blog, was calling[http://blogs.ams.org/inclusionexclusion/2017/05/11/get-out-the-way/ http://blogs.ams.org/inclusionexclusion/2017/05/11/get-out-t...] for all the white men to resign from math departments because somehow they are part of the problem.

diegoperini 9y ago
That is a terrible summary of what is written in that page. Edit: See the commentary below the post. "This is a blog post, an opinion piece, and a provocation to think. As Piper says, it is about “shifting perspective”. It is not being written by a university president, nor is it something we are acting upon. We are not actually firing anyone. A common argumentation device is to take something to the extreme to really help us do the shifting (and often with things regarding race and gender, this is an effective device, albeit upsetting for some)."
- SidiousL 9y ago
  In what way is my summary terrible? I stand by it and I have the facts to back it up. When somebody says: > If you are a white cis man (meaning you identify as male and you were assigned male at birth) you almost certainly should resign from your position of power. That’s right, please quit. No reasonable person can make such a blatantly unfair demand and then accuse me of uncharitable interpretation of their opinion. In fact, I find it horrifying that someboy so unhinged as this woman was allowed to lecture in a university.
  - diegoperini 9y ago
    It is terrible because it ignores the fact that the author's intention is to provoke thinking, in a cynical way. It is one thing to say that a post contains racist/sexist etc pieces, it is another thing to say that the author is racist. In that case, Bo Burnham is someone who deserves a death sentence. Even for a mathematician or scientist, a person has the right to talk with the extremes outside of classroom every once in a while.
    - SidiousL 9y ago
      I don't think I was cynical at all. I just took the most straightforward literal interpretation of what she wrote. And I think she really meant it since otherwise she would have apologized for any misunderstanding by now. About he idea that the author's intention was to provoke thinking. What kind of thinking was it suppose to provoke? Push people to self-hate for who they are? Make the ones in the other camp sharpen their pitchforks and attack math departments until they comply with her lunacy? On the idea that if you write something racist then you are not a racist. Yes you are. What she wrote was not comedy and it wasn't funny at all to me so she does not get the comedy pass.
      - jordigh 9y ago
        > Push people to self-hate for who they are? Did you read the post? She says that's pointless and useless. She also acknowledges that her blog post isn't going to change anything. Nobody is going to quit because they read this. She has no power to fire anyone. White men, on the other hand, have the power to not hire her, to fire her, and so forth. So what's the damage? Why are you mounting an all-out attack against her because you were reminded of her thesis? Why are you hurting so much?
        SidiousL 9y ago
        Did you read the post? Yes. Remember, I linked to it. And, as painful as it was, I did read the whole thing. White men, on the other hand, have the power to not hire her, to fire her, and so forth. So the implication is that a majority of these white men in position of power are bigoted? I think an alternative explanation for her not getting hired is that maybe she didn't meet their standards. I understand that this is maybe a difficult conclusion to accept if you're a female supremacist with a fragile ego. Why are you mounting an all-out attack against her because you were reminded of her thesis? I think the attack is well-deserved for reasons that should be obvious by now.
- SidiousL 9y ago
  And by the way, this commentary that you quoted is by Adriana Salerno, not by the original author. This commentary appeared after the negative reaction to the blog post; the initial version of the blog post did not contain it. I think by labeling it "opinion piece" the American Mathematical Society was distancing themselves from the content (as well they should). I notice now that this commentary was also edited, but some of the more egregious statements remain quoted in the comments of the blog. In other words, even the commentary used to be worse.
jordigh 9y ago
Why is that racist? If they are not part of the problem, then who is? Also, what does this have to do at all with her thesis?
- SidiousL 9y ago
  It is racist and misandrist because it singles out _all_ white men. I don't know how I can make this any clearer. Would it be any easier to understand if you substituted "white men" with "jews"? And by the way, in what way are _all_ of them part of the problem? And how does she know that? Does she know all of them? How should I call somebody who unapologetically makes disparaging and hateful statements about whole groups of a people? The link with her thesis is that she wrote it. And by the way, let me just say that her thesis is special... and leave it at that.
  - jordigh 9y ago
    > Would it be any easier to understand if you substituted "white men" with "jews"? No, because Jews aren't an overwhelming majority of people taking up space in universities. Think of something else. There's lots of traffic on the road. Can we blame any individual driver for the traffic? No. Each is a happy little individual doing the best they can, and how could they have known that every other individual would have wanted to drive that day. But all of those individuals, following their own little selfish goals are what constitute traffic. In order to reduce traffic, they should get off the road and not drive. Walk, take a bike, whatever. Let's go back away from this somewhat tortured analogy. If white men are not responsible for filling up the overwhelming majority of mathematician positions with white men, then who is? Going back to her thesis, it's really odd to me how emotional you get over this and can't separate the thesis from the blog post.
    - SidiousL 9y ago
      No, because Jews aren't an overwhelming majority of people taking up space in universities. I think you'll find that they are overrepresented. How did that come about? And to turn your question back at you: if jews are not responsible for their over-representation in academia, then who is? How about this? Should all the black NBA players (which is most of them) should resign too and make room for white people? Clearly they are responsible for keeping all the white men out. I could go on forever. Going back to her thesis, it's really odd to me how emotional you get over this and can't separate the thesis from the blog post. Sorry, I can not separate work from the author.
dang 9y ago
We've banned this account for ideological flamewar. That is emphatically not what this site, and when accounts use HN primarily for political or ideological battle, we ban them.
- SidiousL 9y ago
  I think this is really unfair. I was downvoted a lot and I'm not sure what for. Every single statement I made in the initial post in this tread was 100% correct and I stand by it. I didn't downvote anybody, I didn't create this account to enter flamewars, and I would have stopped posting on this subject soon enough (it's become clear that I'm talking to the walls).

gone35 9y ago

"Respected research math is dominated by men of a certain attitude. Even allowing for individual variation, there is still a tendency towards an oppressive atmosphere, which is carefully maintained and even championed by those who find it conducive to success." This is def consistent my personal experience... Not so much sexism (nowadays at least) but a strange mix of ageism, cult of innate 'genius', and gymnastics/ballet-like, endurance/bravado-focused ultracompetitiveness [1,2,3]. I increasingly blame Hardy's bestseller --and his abiding influence on mathematics culture worldwide-- for it. (Also I can't believe such a diss was accepted in the first place... Sign of changing times.) [1] https://mathbabe.org/2014/08/15/i-love-math-and-i-hate-the-fields-medal/ https://mathbabe.org/2014/08/15/i-love-math-and-i-hate-the-f... [2] http://listeningtogolem.blogspot.com/2016/08/the-invisible-pachyderm-ageism-in.html http://listeningtogolem.blogspot.com/2016/08/the-invisible-p... [3] https://mathbabe.org/2015/01/16/representation-of-women-and-the-genius-myth/ https://mathbabe.org/2015/01/16/representation-of-women-and-...