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To be fair, by their actions a lot of modern-day CEOs and politicians could be described as incompetent and/or at least malicious if not outright evil. I'm not

To be fair, by their actions a lot of modern-day CEOs and politicians could be described as incompetent and/or at least malicious if not outright evil. I'm not so sure if that piece of the coloring is so inaccurate. By contrast the old ideas of corporate loyalty and blind patriotism seem laughably naive knowing what we know these days. A lot of Dystopian fiction also celebrates the utopian few, usually of or descended from common people. Sure it might erode trust in large institutions, but a lot of it seems to support the concept that good people do exist and can make a difference. I'd not sure it "erodes" so much as "reshapes".

Banthum 9y ago
It can be true, but still harmful. To function, society depends on mass belief in many falsehoods and fictions. Teaching everyone the truth about everything will destroy any society. Theres a very strong tension between true beliefs and beliefs that help people/societies survive.
- liberte82 9y ago
  Can you give some examples?
  - interfixus 9y ago
    I see at least one elephant in the room: Religion.
    - liberte82 9y ago
      I don't really see how society would fail to function without religion. OP is claiming that our society relies on false beliefs to function efficiently.
- scottLobster 9y ago
  That's as debatable as it gets. I'd say there's a strong argument that societies more aware of the truth, while perhaps being subject to more conflicts, are better off. If more people are aware of the truth than more people are equipped to act appropriately. And if more people knowing the truth means that societal systems collapse, then maybe we need new, better systems. By your logic people should be tricked into believing fast food is healthy in order to help prop-up the US economy.
- lgas 9y ago
  That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be. - P. C. Hodgell
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  > Theres a very strong tension between true beliefs and beliefs that help people/societies survive. There is, but I think it's not about the truth value - it's about complexity. The society doesn't need to be told lies; it's just that the raw truth seems beyond what most people can handle. Maybe it is solvable through education. A big reason why I see people having trouble with reality is that they were never taught to think in systems, and instead try to blame someone.
  - Banthum 9y ago
    I wish that were true but I don't think more than perhaps 10% (possibly much less) of the population have the mental horsepower to deal with the raw truth about the moral and historical foundations of their identities. I'm in the top few percent intellectually but I'm not sure I do either, tbh. Maybe nobody does.
TeMPOraL 9y ago
I think it erodes it very much. And while "by their actions a lot of modern-day CEOs and politicians could be described as incompetent and/or at least malicious if not outright evil", I also learned that a lot of times, it's the media that give this perception by misrepresenting their actions/motivations to people. And as for institutions, it's fun to laugh at them while living in a world almost fully conditioned on the ongoing competence of those institutions. Writer David Brin talks a lot about this in his article, "Our Favorite Cliché: A World Filled With Idiots", which I'll strongly recommend here. http://www.davidbrin.com/nonfiction/idiotplot.html http://www.davidbrin.com/nonfiction/idiotplot.html

Banthum 9y ago

It can be true, but still harmful. To function, society depends on mass belief in many falsehoods and fictions. Teaching everyone the truth about everything will destroy any society. Theres a very strong tension between true beliefs and beliefs that help people/societies survive.

liberte82 9y ago
Can you give some examples?
- interfixus 9y ago
  I see at least one elephant in the room: Religion.
  - liberte82 9y ago
    I don't really see how society would fail to function without religion. OP is claiming that our society relies on false beliefs to function efficiently.
scottLobster 9y ago
That's as debatable as it gets. I'd say there's a strong argument that societies more aware of the truth, while perhaps being subject to more conflicts, are better off. If more people are aware of the truth than more people are equipped to act appropriately. And if more people knowing the truth means that societal systems collapse, then maybe we need new, better systems. By your logic people should be tricked into believing fast food is healthy in order to help prop-up the US economy.
lgas 9y ago
That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be. - P. C. Hodgell
TeMPOraL 9y ago
> Theres a very strong tension between true beliefs and beliefs that help people/societies survive. There is, but I think it's not about the truth value - it's about complexity. The society doesn't need to be told lies; it's just that the raw truth seems beyond what most people can handle. Maybe it is solvable through education. A big reason why I see people having trouble with reality is that they were never taught to think in systems, and instead try to blame someone.
- Banthum 9y ago
  I wish that were true but I don't think more than perhaps 10% (possibly much less) of the population have the mental horsepower to deal with the raw truth about the moral and historical foundations of their identities. I'm in the top few percent intellectually but I'm not sure I do either, tbh. Maybe nobody does.

TeMPOraL 9y ago

I think it erodes it very much. And while "by their actions a lot of modern-day CEOs and politicians could be described as incompetent and/or at least malicious if not outright evil", I also learned that a lot of times, it's the media that give this perception by misrepresenting their actions/motivations to people. And as for institutions, it's fun to laugh at them while living in a world almost fully conditioned on the ongoing competence of those institutions. Writer David Brin talks a lot about this in his article, "Our Favorite Cliché: A World Filled With Idiots", which I'll strongly recommend here. http://www.davidbrin.com/nonfiction/idiotplot.html http://www.davidbrin.com/nonfiction/idiotplot.html